XPost: alt.atheism, aus.politics   
   From: spam@hotmail.com   
      
   darwinist wrote:   
   > David V. wrote:   
   >   
   >> darwinist@gmail.com wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> That our genes have made it this far says a lot about   
   >>> them. Not one of our ancestors died before reproducing, in   
   >>> the many millions of generations between the first   
   >>> life-form and our present body, this has involved a lot of   
   >>> different situations and environments. You might say we   
   >>> are relatively well-tested.   
   >>>   
   >>> Unique among earth's life, humans have a strategic   
   >>> self-awareness. That is, we can see what our mind is doing   
   >>> and use that information to refine our strategies. We can   
   >>> see what other people's minds are doing as well. In   
   >>> neither case are our explanations perfect, but thinking   
   >>> about minds, being mindful of thoughts, at least   
   >>> sometimes, has proven useful to the gene-pool.   
   >>>   
   >>> The human condition, then, is a lifelong education in how   
   >>> to make use of the human condition. We have a   
   >>> sophisticated set of decision-making faculties to serve   
   >>> us, and we can consider them at the strategic level. Even   
   >>> so, people die every minute after several million   
   >>> generations of unbroken reproductive success, so we can't   
   >>> assume anything out of life, except this education.   
   >>>   
   >>> We can generally learn a lot better if we are willing to   
   >>> revise our answers and plans, rather than grabbing any   
   >>> solid piece of certainty within reach and bashing our   
   >>> enemies on the head with it. They're not enemies when you   
   >>> realise you're in the same class, and can help each other   
   >>> to learn.   
   >>   
   >> Then maybe you can learn a bit about biology? We are not   
   >> alone in self-awareness.   
   >   
   > Can you be more specific? What other animal can abstract a   
   > plan from its concrete specifics and examine the logic as a   
   > thing in itself? What other animal can make up fiction on   
   > purpose to illustrate a general point? What other animal can   
   > lie creatively, rather than simply hide something? Koko the   
   > gorilla knew she was sad when her kitty died, but that doesn't   
   > mean she could understand the causal-relationship.   
      
   I could go into specifics, but I don't have the time to take you   
   through several upper level biology classes. I also sense a game   
   of shifting goal posts, and some plurium interrogationum, going   
   on so I am reluctant to put much effort into a reply.   
      
   >> Other animals make decisions.   
   >   
   > Decisions may not be self-aware. Transistor-based computers   
   > make decisions, but are generally not considered self-aware.   
      
   The decisions may or may not be self-aware, until you have talked   
   to the animal itself you cannot make a blanket statement either way.   
      
   >> Other animals are also well tested and have shown to be more   
   >> adaptable than humans.   
   >   
   > What do you mean by more adaptable?   
      
   a‧dapt‧a‧ble  /əˈdæptəbəl/   
   –adjective   
   1.	capable of being adapted.   
   2.	able to adjust oneself readily to different conditions: an   
   adaptable person.   
      
   >> Maybe it is humans that need to learn a bit more from the   
   >> other animals..... Nah, human ego always gets in the way.   
   >   
   > Is there something wrong with appreciating the human condition   
   > and learning from other animals as well?   
      
   Where did I say there was?   
      
   > Here is the same author on the potential of self-awareness in   
   > humans. Perhaps you can tell me another animal this applies   
   > to:   
   >   
   > "The perfection of wisdom, and the end of true philosophy is   
   > to proportion our wants to our possessions, our ambitions to   
   > our capacities, we will then be a happy and a virtuous   
   > people." - Mark Twain.   
      
   Your quote there is a non sequitur.   
      
   --   
   Dave   
      
   "Sacred cows make the best hamburger."  Mark Twain.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)