XPost: alt.agnosticism, talk.atheism, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.philosophy   
   From: prohumanist@gr8mail.com   
      
   a_f_r_i_e_n_d@hotmail.com wrote ...   
   >   
   >Interesting.   
   >   
   >I think you overlook the process of learning or acquiring information   
   >that then becomes a "belief". Belief, from my perspective, is not   
   >limited to notions of gods and such, but on any information that we   
   >come in contact with, accept/introject/reject without any cognitive   
   >process that tests the veracity of the information.   
   >'   
   >Indoctrination of children is a tried and true method. Not only of   
   >religion, but of many social beliefs that a culture will perpetuate.   
   >   
   >If an Ancient was told about Zeus, why believe it? What was the source   
   >of the information? Why believe that source? Why accept something as   
   >true first and then send a lifetime question does Zeus actually exist   
   >and do as was claimed from one's childhood. More important, how did   
   >that child come to accept the information as true? Further, why reject   
   >a long held belief if the social circumstances support it. After all,   
   >until recent years, the penalty for being a non-believer were quite   
   >severe. I would have been tortured in the Inquisitions for my opinions   
   >alone. Given we are a social species who often fear rejection and   
   >abandonment, it is understandable why people would be reluctant to   
   >choose evidence and rational proofs to faith and belief.   
   >   
      
   Your response, well-presented. Not sure   
   -if- you believe in believing, but you cer-   
   tainly appear to understand the process.   
      
   In addition, religion promises that if you   
   believe in the 'right' religion in the 'right'   
   way, you get the goodies, forever. Kind   
   of like promising an eternal orgasm,   
   though I rarely here the religious admit   
   that an eternal drug-like unending plea-   
   sure high is exactly what the promise   
   of heaven appears to be.   
      
   The religious typically present their prom-   
   ises in non-specific religious verbage far   
   removed from drug or sexual highs, but   
   nevertheless implying that a God-approved   
   pleasure scene is part of the heaven pic-   
   ture.   
      
   Implying?   
      
   Heck, muslims promise it, what with their   
   gaggle of virgins alongside a river of   
   wine promised for Allah's jihadist who   
   die in the name of Islam.   
      
   Countering that, the religious contend that   
   is definitely *not* supposed to be part of   
   what the initial poster in this thread charac-   
   terized as a hard life of struggle on earth,   
   supposedly required by God for humans   
   to prove our worth.   
      
   Also, religion promises that disbelief   
   guarantees either oblivion, short-term   
   torment followed by oblivion, or eternal   
   torment, take your pick.   
      
   Not really clear on the nature of some   
   of the religious threats, with things like   
   eternal cold or eternal heat or eternal   
   burial (while alive and being tortured)   
   tossed about by various religions, but   
   needless to say, their threats for dis-   
   belief are enough to make many, espe-   
   cially children, be all-but frightened-to-   
   death of them.   
      
   However, on a hopeful note, the reli-   
   gious threat engines are enough to   
   make many adults reject religion.   
      
   Perhaps that's why religions, in general,   
   tend to steer clear of using the threat   
   side of their faith, most often, as that's   
   not only objectionable to most humans   
   these days, it's also a reminder of how   
   that side of religious faith led to horri-   
   fic acts of anti-humanism by religions   
   in times past.   
      
   Unfortunately, of note, religious anti-   
   humanism is a problem that continues   
   to rear its head all too often in times   
   present.   
      
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