XPost: alt.atheism, alt.agnosticism, sci.skeptic   
   XPost: alt.christnet   
   From: bruces42@hotmail.com   
      
   On 07/01/2014 12:36 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   > On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 11:36:29 -0600, BruceS    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 06/30/2014 05:00 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 18:47:04 -0600, BruceS    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 06/29/2014 06:51 AM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:54:23 -0600, BruceS    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 06/26/2014 01:06 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:19:28 +1000, felix_unger    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 25-June-2014 2:02 AM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> once a person is an atheist that person will always be an atheist.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> untrue   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I guess you know because you are an atheist?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> YOU HAVE NO IDEA you little fucking gimp. You dont know what it is   
   >>>>>>> like to know the truth. You dont know what it is like to realize that   
   >>>>>>> you have been lied to by most people for your entire life. You dont   
   >>>>>>> know what it is like then the people come to your door trying to sell   
   >>>>>>> god and you cant help but feel so sorry for them for being such   
   >>>>>>> idiots.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No you will never know what it is like because your mind wiill never   
   >>>>>>> be opend to what the world is really like. You will never know because   
   >>>>>>> your brain just is not able to understand the truth   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I have to agree with Felix on this one.  I've known atheists who became   
   >>>>>> religious, nearly always Christian.  I had a HS friend who was no more   
   >>>>>> interested in invisible sky monkeys than I was; more focused on scoring   
   >>>>>> some weed and getting high.  After we graduated and went our separate   
   >>>>>> ways, he seemed to keep "the faith" for a while, but then one vacation   
   >>>>>> he had become "saved" and talked about little but Jesus   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> just because a person is not a practicing theist does not make them   
   >>>>> atheist or agnostic even. If a person can not say with 100% clarity   
   >>>>> that they know that there is no god that there will never be a god and   
   >>>>> there has never been a god, then that person is NOT an atheist.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You seem to be arguing for theists' definition of "atheist".  Under that   
   >>>> definition, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not sure what you'd call me.  I   
   >>>> define myself as an atheist because I have no belief in any gods.   
   >>>   
   >>> so are you trying to say that you can not state that there is no god   
   >>> at all? if you can not say that then no you are not an atheist, at   
   >>> least not in my opinion. You have said that you have no "belief in   
   >>> god", but do you "know" that god does not exist.   
   >>   
   >> You appear to completely fail to understand the difference between not   
   >> believing in A and firmly believing in !A.  There's a huge difference,   
   >> represented by a large population.  If you have a definite belief in !A,   
   >> there's even a burden of proof on you to provide evidence for !A.  Your   
   >> opinion of the nature of atheism is overly limited.   
   >>   
   >>>    And every theist has in thier own mind what atheist means but when it   
   >>> comes down to it the meaning is simple. Atheist = no gods. and that is   
   >>> it. You can further define it as  a lack of belief in any gods.   
   >>> However you have stated you have no belief in gods so that would mean   
   >>> you are an atheist. So why cant you say "there are no gods"?   
   >>>   
   >>> saying you have no belief is the exact same thing   
   >>   
   >> No, it isn't.   
   >>   
   >>>>> That person either has fears that there may actually be a heaven and a   
   >>>>> hell or that person is just to embarassed to say they believe or   
   >>>>> perhaps that person just wants attnetion so they act like they are   
   >>>>> atheist or agnostic even just to have thier desires met   
   >>>>   
   >>>> No to all of that.  I have no fear of magical places for living after   
   >>>> death, or anything like that, and am not at all embarrassed to say I   
   >>>> have no firm beliefs regarding magic, including gods.  I lack belief in   
   >>>> gods.  In my opinion, that makes me an atheist.  If I wanted attention,   
   >>>> I'd do better by pretending to belief.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> . If they fear the heaven or hell thing then there are a closet theist   
   >>>>> and they actually do have a belief in a god purely out of fear,   
   >>>>> chances are though they will never admit that   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You seem to make a lot of assumptions about the beliefs and motives of   
   >>>> other people.  I suggest that you do so at great risk of being wrong   
   >>>> most of the time.   
   >>>   
   >>> Not making assumptions, just stating observations.   
   >>   
   >> Your "observations" appear to be based on naive assumptions about things   
   >> you cannot know, such as the motivations and beliefs of others.   
   >>   
   >>>>>>     At first I   
   >>>>>> thought he was pulling my leg, but he was serious.  A few months later   
   >>>>>> he had regained his sense, but later still had a relapse.  He's not the   
   >>>>>> only one I've known to suddenly embrace irrationality and superstition,   
   >>>>>> just the one who came to mind first.  Many people who go through life as   
   >>>>>> atheists suddenly start one or another form of "spiritualism" when faced   
   >>>>>> with their own mortality.  I've been appalled at the mental lapses shown   
   >>>>>> merely from taking an abstract reality and bringing it to the   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> That is a prime example of a closet theist. Those kind of people even   
   >>>>> like to call themselves agnostic for example "%" that comes here is   
   >>>>> like that. After it is all said and done though he is a theist purely   
   >>>>> our of fear and lack of education or perhaps even the wrong kind of   
   >>>>> education   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If a person has enough forethough so say GOD DOES NOT EXIST and know   
   >>>>> alll the reasons why then that person is an atheist. IF a person says   
   >>>>> they are atheist just ask them why and if they can not give you a   
   >>>>> rather detailed answer then chances are that person is not an atheist   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You have a dictionary failure.   
   >>>   
   >>> why would you say that? I dont understand how that relates to if a   
   >>> person is artheist or not.   
   >>   
   >> Quite simply, the fact that someone is an atheist does not imply that   
   >> that person has some set of reasons, acceptable to a misinformed and   
   >> narrow-minded observer, for being an atheist.  It doesn't even imply   
   >> that he is sure there are no gods, simply that he does not believe there   
   >> to be any.   
   >   
   > That would be incorrect. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection   
      
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