XPost: alt.atheism, alt.agnosticism, sci.skeptic   
   XPost: alt.christnet   
   From: bruces42@hotmail.com   
      
   On 07/01/2014 07:45 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   > On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 16:40:07 -0600, BruceS    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 07/01/2014 12:36 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2014 11:36:29 -0600, BruceS    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 06/30/2014 05:00 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2014 18:47:04 -0600, BruceS    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 06/29/2014 06:51 AM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:54:23 -0600, BruceS    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> why would you say that? I dont understand how that relates to if a   
   >>>>> person is artheist or not.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Quite simply, the fact that someone is an atheist does not imply that   
   >>>> that person has some set of reasons, acceptable to a misinformed and   
   >>>> narrow-minded observer, for being an atheist.  It doesn't even imply   
   >>>> that he is sure there are no gods, simply that he does not believe there   
   >>>> to be any.   
   >>>   
   >>> That would be incorrect. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection   
   >>> of belief in the existence of deities. .If you say you dont believe in   
   >>> god, that is not atheism   
   >>   
   >> So you retain your definition, contrary to that of many atheists.  While   
   >> I'm here, I'll just go ahead and make my own definition for "Christian",   
   >> being "someone who has heard of the Bible and possibly read parts of it."   
   >   
   >   
   > Dude do you think I am just making this up?   
   >   
   > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism   
   >   
   > Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence   
   > of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position   
   > that there are no deities.   
      
   Ah, the authority of Wikipedia.  Would you care to try for OED?   
      
   >>> In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there   
   >>> are no deities.   
   >>   
   >> In a narrower sense, Christianity is specifically having heard of Jesus   
   >> of Nazareth.   
   >>   
   >>> in other words if you say you are an atheist you are saying "There are   
   >>> no gods"   
   >>   
   >> In other words, you are now a Christian.  Congratulations!   
   >>   
   >>> why are you not agnostic. you sound alot more agnostic than atheist.   
   >>>   
   >>> Agnostic holds the position that the existence of a god is   
   >>> unknowable   
   >>   
   >> There's the rub.  Agnosticism holds that it's not possible to know   
   >> whether gods exist.  I don't buy that.  I'm perfectly willing to accept   
   >> the existence of gods, given objective evidence for their existence.   
   >> Having not seen any such evidence, I remain without any belief in their   
   >> existence.   
   >   
   >   
   > again do you think I am making this up?   
   > ag·nos·tic   
   > ag'nästik/Submit   
   > noun   
   > 1.   
   > a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the   
   > existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a   
   > person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.   
      
   Note the part about "can be known".  An agnostic believes it's not   
   possible to know.   
      
   > Tell me bruce Why are you an atheist?   
   > Can you say "There is no god"   
      
   Haven't we been over this?  I don't need a specific laundry list of   
   reasons for being an atheist, that you find acceptable from your narrow   
   and mistaken understanding of atheism.   
      
   >>>>   
   >>>> I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  Atheism is the default   
   >>>   
   >>> yes it is the default   
   >>>   
   >>>> condition for a sensible, logical person in the absence of any objective   
   >>>> evidence for one or more gods.  As I have never seen any such evidence,   
   >>>   
   >>> atheist are not concerned with evidence. An atheist does not need   
   >>> evidence as I said an atheist can state "There are no gods" and know   
   >>> this to be true evidence is not needed. but if asked why are you not a   
   >>> theist why dont you beliewve in a god then any true atheist can give   
   >>> you a laundry list of reasons why. Quite frankly when you look at it   
   >>> from an agnostic point of view there is no evidence either way and   
   >>> there can not be evidence either way.   
   >>   
   >> You present atheism as a matter of faith.  This should be quite   
   >   
   > No I dont a belief requires faith. I have not spoken of belief other   
   > than to say I dont have any   
      
   Right up there, still in view if you don't scroll too far: 'atheist are   
   not concerned with evidence. An atheist does not need evidence as I said   
   an atheist can state "There are no gods" and know this to be true   
   evidence is not needed.'  That's a declaration of faith, right there.   
   It's no more objective than the theistic equivalent of 'theist are not   
   concerned with evidence. A theist does not need evidence as I said a   
   theist can state "There are gods" and know this to be true evidence is   
   not needed."'   
      
   >> acceptable to the local theistic audience.  I say instead that atheism   
   >> is independent of a concern for evidence.  Some atheists may be so   
   >> because of their faith, as appears to be the case for you.  Others, such   
   >   
   > atheists dont have faith   
   >   
   >> as I, are atheists at least in part because of evidence, or the lack of   
   >> same.  Theism and atheism are about the belief in gods or the lack   
   >> thereof, not about how one reaches that situation.  Your "any true   
   >> atheist" bit really sounds like the call to arms for some sort of   
   >> organized group of people sharing a faith.   
   >   
   > nah I am jsut trying to educate people. I have seen many people say I   
   > am an atheist and could not even define the term properly much less   
   > say "there is no god"   
      
   And yet you fail to define it properly, or consistently.  An atheist is   
   quite simply someone with no belief in gods.  It doesn't take faith,   
   declarations, the "right" set of reasons, or some secret handshake.   
   There's no club, membership, or initiation ceremony.   
      
   >>> you can not have evidence wither way for a fantasy.   
   >>   
   >> Now I would say this statement makes you agnostic.   
   >>   
   >>> Just like tinkerbell and harry potter.... do you have evidence they do   
   >>> or do not exist? no bbecause they are a fantasy. You know there were   
   >>> created from an imagination and you know 100% they are not real only   
   >>> fantasy. That is what a god is to an atheist. 100% fantasy no evidence   
   >>> is needed.   
   >>   
   >> That is what a god is to the particular kind of atheist that you want to   
   >> rebrand as the only "true atheists", but it isn't the only way.   
   >   
   > are you one of those that subscribe to the terms weak and strong   
   > atheist/agnostic? I surely hope not..   
   >   
   > There are no strong or weak jews or christians you either are or you   
   > arent   
      
   That's an amusing belief.   
      
      
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