XPost: alt.atheism, alt.agnosticism, sci.skeptic   
   XPost: alt.christnet   
   From: bruces42@hotmail.com   
      
   On 07/06/2014 02:42 AM, felix_unger wrote:   
   > On 06-July-2014 5:21 PM, BruceS wrote:   
   >> On 07/04/2014 04:57 PM, felix_unger wrote:   
   >>> On 04-July-2014 1:06 AM, BruceS wrote:   
   >>>> On 07/02/2014 06:30 PM, felix_unger wrote:   
   >>>>> On 02-July-2014 8:40 AM, BruceS wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 07/01/2014 12:36 PM, bilgat@m.nu wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> why are you not agnostic. you sound alot more agnostic than atheist.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Agnostic holds the position that the existence of a god is   
   >>>>>>> unknowable   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> There's the rub. Agnosticism holds that it's not possible to know   
   >>>>>> whether gods exist. I don't buy that. I'm perfectly willing to accept   
   >>>>>> the existence of gods, given objective evidence for their existence.   
   >>>>>> Having not seen any such evidence, I remain without any belief in   
   >>>>>> their existence.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> so lets talk about what you do believe then, to be consistent with   
   >>>>> your   
   >>>>> position of no evidence for God.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> To simplify, I believe I have never seen objective evidence for the   
   >>>> existence of magical powers.  So, what specifically do *you* believe?   
   >>>> Do you actually believe in one or more of the popular gods, and if so,   
   >>>> why those and not all the others?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> you believe then that NO prayer has   
   >>>>> ever been answered or ever will be. you believe that NO person ever   
   >>>>> has   
   >>>>> ever had any spiritual encounter or experience, or ever will. you   
   >>>>> believe there's NO evidence that Jesus ever existed, despite what is   
   >>>>> written in the bible. you believe that NO story in the bible, or any   
   >>>>> other holy book, is true or really happened. you believe that NO   
   >>>>> prophecy has ever been or ever will be fulfilled. you believe there is   
   >>>>> NO creator, and all life and existence must have some other cause or   
   >>>>> origin. you believe there is NO afterlife although you can't prove it.   
   >>>>> you believe that ALL the billions of ppl who believe in God are   
   >>>>> deluded.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You got some right, and missed on others.  That's about as accurate as   
   >>>> a psychic reading, so I guess it's no surprise coming from a proponent   
   >>>> of magic.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> and so on, and so on. Of course you can and will believe what you   
   >>>>> like,   
   >>>>> but I as I've said, I believe the claim that there's no evidence   
   >>>>> for God   
   >>>>> is just silly, and that it takes much more to credulity to believe it   
   >>>>> than to accept that there is evidence, because there clearly is. the   
   >>>>   
   >>>> And yet, every time you're asked for evidence of gods, you resort to   
   >>>> evidence that some people *believe* in gods instead.  It's been   
   >>>> pointed out to you repeatedly that similar evidence exists to support   
   >>>> beliefs in many different gods, some of which preclude others, so at   
   >>>> least some of those beliefs are definitely wrong. None of those   
   >>>> beliefs have (as far as I've seen) any better evidence to support them   
   >>>> than the others, and none of them have any evidence better than the   
   >>>> evidence that there people who believe there are no gods.  How is it   
   >>>> "silly" to just not accept any gods or other supernatural things   
   >>>> without evidence that directly supports them?  Isn't it a lot more   
   >>>> silly to believe in one (or one group) of particular gods, to the   
   >>>> exclusion of the others?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> more I see atheists wanting to deny there's any evidence for God, the   
   >>>>> more I'm convinced they're simply running scared from the possibility   
   >>>>> that any religious claims may be true. I've yet to see any atheist   
   >>>>> come   
   >>>>> out and say.. "yes, there's plenty of evidence for God, but I simply   
   >>>>> don't want to accept it"   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There's plenty of evidence that people believe in gods, and have done   
   >>>> so for a very long time.  I accept that, even though it's remotely   
   >>>> possible it's all been faked somehow.  You still haven't presented   
   >>>> even a shred of evidence that any one or more of these gods actually   
   >>>> exist, outside the imaginations of the believers. Are you prepared to   
   >>>> do that now?   
   >>>   
   >>> the only point I make, that I have ever tried to make, is that there is   
   >>> evidence for God. you can say it's just evidence that ppl believe in   
   >>> God/gods if you wish, but that's not true. all of those things I   
   >>> mentioned that you don't believe in are evidence for God, not just   
   >>> evidence of belief. the bible stories about Jesus are evidence for   
   >>> Jesus, not just what someone believes. any prayer that is claimed to   
   >>> have been answered is evidence that prayer is answered, not just that   
   >>> ppl believe in answered prayer. every miracle that is said to have   
   >>> happened is evidence for miracles, and not that ppl believe in miracles.   
   >>> all I'm talking about here is evidence, not proof.   
   >>   
   >> No, they just aren't.  These stories are evidence that people wrote   
   >> the stories, and their popularity and the seriousness with which some   
   >> people treat them is evidence that some people believe the stories. No   
   >> story is evidence of its own truth.  And no, we're not looking for   
   >> proof, just any actual evidence.  So the only point you make is   
   >> completely wrong. That must be frustrating.   
   >   
   > It's not. because I know I'm right. you're in d'nile because you want to   
   > believe there is simply NO evidence for God, because you want to believe   
   > that God does not exist. no 'normal' person says there is no evidence   
   > for God. only atheists do because they want to be atheists.   
      
   No matter how many times I correct you about what I believe or want to   
   believe, you misrepresent it.  This makes you either extraordinarily   
   dense, or a liar.  .....   
      
   >> I notice that you again refuse to state your own beliefs,   
   >   
   > yes, because I'm not here to talk about myself or what I believe or not   
      
   You ask others what they believe, but refuse to say what you believe.   
   Using your own approach of assigning motives and fears to others, I'll   
   just go ahead and say that it's obvious you're a "Christian" who doesn't   
   really believe any of the crap your pedarist leaders pollute the world   
   with.  You know they're a bunch of liars and cheats, but you're afraid   
   to admit that you realize there is no god, that Jesus was at best   
   another liar and cheat, and possibly didn't even exist as a historical   
   person.  You don't want to admit your beliefs because it would brand you   
   as a hypocrite, and because your Christian associates (who really *do*   
   believe the lies you try to pretend to them you believe but really   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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