XPost: alt.atheism, talk.atheism, alt.agnosticism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic, alt.magick   
   From: nospam@buzz.off   
      
   On Mon, 10 Apr 2023 11:22:27 +1000, the following appeared   
   in sci.skeptic, posted by Sylvia Else   
   :   
      
   >On 10-Apr-23 2:02 am, Skeeter wrote:   
   >> In article <2rs43i1cs7g6r661rrq234pj0ngcc4s7k9@4ax.com>,   
   >> twang@the.noodle says...   
   >>>   
   >>> Skeeter wrote:   
   >>>> twang@the.noodle says...   
   >>>>> Skeeter wrote:   
   >>>>>> twang@the.noodle says...   
   >>>>>>> Skeeter wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> In article , sylvia@email.invalid   
   says...   
   >>>>>>>>> On 08-Apr-23 2:52 pm, Michael McLean wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Everything is the consequence of something.  No thing can create   
   itself.   
   >>>>>>>>>>    It needs a cause.  Thus eternal God or nothing would be here. No   
   thing   
   >>>>>>>>>> can "be" before it is in order to bring itself into "being."   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> So, God can be eternal, but nothing else can, because.....?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Sylvia.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> He created it?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Could God create an eternal universe if he wanted to?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> It wouldn't be eternal if it was created.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> So you mean no, God isn't powerful enough to create an   
   >>>>> eternal universe.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Twist it around as usual.   
   >>>   
   >>> You said it, not me.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   If it was created it cannot be eternal.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course it can.  Any omnipotent god can create   
   >>> something that lasts forever.  If he can't, he's not   
   >>> omnipotent and he needs to go back to god school.   
   >>   
   >> If it was created it had a beginning.   
   >   
   >You mean God cannot create an eternal universe that had no beginning?   
   >   
   He's using the first dictionary definition of "eternal",   
   which implies "always existed and always will" and ignoring   
   the second, which does not:   
      
   From the OED:   
      
   "1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always   
   existing (opposed to temporal): eternal life.   
      
   2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling;eternal   
   chatter."   
      
   IOW, word games.   
   >   
   >In any case, we already know that "omnipotence" contains a built-in   
   >contradiction. Can God create something that He cannot destroy? Etc.   
   >   
   --   
      
   Bob C.   
      
   "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,   
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not   
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"   
      
   - Isaac Asimov   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)