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   talk.religion.bahai      Discussion of the Baha'i Faith      33,166 messages   

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   Message 31,590 of 33,166   
   Nathan Ab-e-Keer to if we assume your premises about bo   
   Re: Challenge to Denis Giron (1/2)   
   15 Jan 20 03:39:15   
   
   From: nathanabookire@gmail.com   
      
   > Nathan Abookire ranted:   
      
   LOL    
      
   > That's not the point of this exercise, tool, nor are you meant to know where   
   the line of these dots actually leads. Nevertheless, I will give you clues.   
      
   I'm not sure these "dots" lead anywhere outside of your grey matter.   
      
   >The reason you Lobby provocateurs have been set on me    
   Nobody has been set on you Nima. That is your ongoing constant obsession and   
   delusion. Once you're convinced a former friendly acquaintance fits this   
   paradigm they get put there and demonized. When they pushback gently or   
   harshly you become the "victim" (   
   you aren't).   
      
      
   >is 1) because I was among the first to have exposed the fact that Dugin and   
   >his networks serve Israel and Zionism. This is now widely accepted fact.    
      
   i) Why are you so obsessed with a two bit intellectual like Aleksandr Dugin   
   who barely makes a splash in his country let alone outside of it? He's more of   
   an internet phenomenon like Jordan Peterson. Ever heard of 15 minutes of fame?   
      
   ii) Where do you get this idea that Dugin has "networks"?   
      
   iii) What link can you concretely establish between Dugin, his alleged   
   networks, and Zionism (which kind of Zionism?) and the State of Israel? So far   
   all we have are your assertions and the conspiracy theories you have about   
   being the victim of a disinfo    
   campaign curiously made up of people who once liked and admired you that you   
   began libeling as shills, spies, Fascists, etc   
      
   iv) "Widely accepted as fact." By whom? What major credible source draws such   
   connections? Hyperlinks? Books? Journal or magazine articles? Newspapers? As   
   an academic please cite some sources (and please don't tell me asking such a   
   basic question is "   
   proof" of my calumnies).   
      
   >.2) My activities against the Baha'is have hurt the Israeli tourism industry   
   >in Haifa, especially where I have claimed that the shrine on Mt Carmel is a   
   >cenotaph and not a real shrine because the final remains of the Bab are not   
   >there; they are in    
   Iran where they have always been.    
   >    
      
   I am not an expert on Baha'i or Babi stuff admittedly I've been encouraged to   
   do more reading and dialog on the topic thanks to this shitposting thing we've   
   had going on nearly 4 years now.    
      
   It doesn't really bother me if the Shrine in Haifa is merely a cenotaph and   
   not the actual tomb. I know you have some posts on your blog about this. I   
   cannot really say or even hold that it makes a difference to me.    
      
   I can ask how you know and try to re-read your articles to this effect.    
      
   My major skepticism though is your assertion that you have somehow hurt the   
   Israeli tourism industry. How essential are Baha'is to that industry? What   
   percentage of tourists to the State of Israel are driven by Baha'i religious   
   motivations? What numbers    
   can you cite to establish this claim?    
      
      
   > The reason why you Zionists support the Bahaim is not for any reasons of   
   >principle or altruism, because you have none.    
      
   I truly do not understand what criterion you have used to establish that I and   
   others whom you've placed inside the "bad guy" box are Zionists of any shade.   
      
   >It is because a. they are your tools,    
      
   This is a conspiracy theory tier assertion and again a chain of causation   
   isn't even somewhat fleshed out.   
      
   >b. they bring you shekels,   
      
   I'm not a Jew (despite some crazy assertions of yours that I am not partially   
   Lebanese but a "New York Jew" even though I'm from Ohio and only was raised   
   some of my childhood in upstate NY and went to college in NYC and as if being   
   a Jew were some weird    
   insult. Isn't your grandma a Hamdani Jew by origin? What gives?). I am   
   sensitive enough to Jews though that when someone talks about being brought   
   the shekels there's usually a de facto Anti-Semitic trope at work.    
      
   > c. they are weaponized by you against Iran (and it wouldn't matter if Iran   
   >was not an Islamic Republic but something else),    
      
   Another claim without proof. As if a religious minority were a threat to any   
   state.   
      
   >d. they are your nodes of soft power globally and wherever they go, you go,   
      
   Now you're getting in really deep lore conspiracy theory which is bordering on   
   Protocols of the Elders of Zion levels of insane and bigoted. Global   
   conspiracy of Jews and Baha'is? I am supposed to take this seriously?   
      
   >e. they are one of the most important vehicles by which you managed to   
   >establish yourselves in Palestine from the late 1890s all the way to 1948.    
   >    
      
   Timeline of perfidy demonstrating this claim? Or will your response be "GoOgLe   
   iS fReE, loOk  iT uP sWeAtY!"   
      
   > Given these, the religion of the Bayan, its teachings and history are   
   >arguably a threat to you and your interests because were these things to gain   
   >wider recognition, the truth about your Bahaim tools would become more widely   
   >understood.    
      
   I don't share your premises namely because this "background" you've invented   
   and projected onto me aren't objective realities but fantasies. I don't see   
   the Baha'is as tools in some "nexus" (your favorite word lately) of the   
   sinister. In any case, if we    
   assume your premises about both myself and others and about us being part of a   
   machinery of conspiracy controlled by Zionists and Duginists and utilizing   
   Baha'is: so what? Why or how is Babi/Bayani/Azali religion such a threat to   
   said imaginary nexus? (   
   an even smaller minority than the Baha'i, if indeed it has adherents and a   
   living tradition behind it and not merely your assertions. I suspect there are   
   small communities of Azali Babis left but I have yet to see how you fit in   
   with their structures of    
   community and authority other than your own claims.)   
      
   >Once widely understood, for starters, the human rights canards would collapse   
   >and with it any leverage you dibbukim hold against Iran (IR or otherwise).    
      
   The use of the term "dibbukim" is interesting. I know a "dybbuk" (as I've most   
   often seen it transliterated) is a demon from Jewish lore particularly   
   Ashkenazi and comes from the root deveq, to cleave. Your use of this word as   
   an insult might be    
   offensive if I had a Jewish background but I suspect even an actual Jew would   
   find it as funny as I do. You're trying too hard Nima, and your arrow keeps   
   hitting the wrong mark dude.    
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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