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|    talk.religion.bahai    |    Discussion of the Baha'i Faith    |    33,166 messages    |
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|    Message 31,590 of 33,166    |
|    Nathan Ab-e-Keer to if we assume your premises about bo    |
|    Re: Challenge to Denis Giron (1/2)    |
|    15 Jan 20 03:39:15    |
      From: nathanabookire@gmail.com              > Nathan Abookire ranted:              LOL               > That's not the point of this exercise, tool, nor are you meant to know where       the line of these dots actually leads. Nevertheless, I will give you clues.              I'm not sure these "dots" lead anywhere outside of your grey matter.              >The reason you Lobby provocateurs have been set on me        Nobody has been set on you Nima. That is your ongoing constant obsession and       delusion. Once you're convinced a former friendly acquaintance fits this       paradigm they get put there and demonized. When they pushback gently or       harshly you become the "victim" (       you aren't).                     >is 1) because I was among the first to have exposed the fact that Dugin and       >his networks serve Israel and Zionism. This is now widely accepted fact.               i) Why are you so obsessed with a two bit intellectual like Aleksandr Dugin       who barely makes a splash in his country let alone outside of it? He's more of       an internet phenomenon like Jordan Peterson. Ever heard of 15 minutes of fame?              ii) Where do you get this idea that Dugin has "networks"?              iii) What link can you concretely establish between Dugin, his alleged       networks, and Zionism (which kind of Zionism?) and the State of Israel? So far       all we have are your assertions and the conspiracy theories you have about       being the victim of a disinfo        campaign curiously made up of people who once liked and admired you that you       began libeling as shills, spies, Fascists, etc              iv) "Widely accepted as fact." By whom? What major credible source draws such       connections? Hyperlinks? Books? Journal or magazine articles? Newspapers? As       an academic please cite some sources (and please don't tell me asking such a       basic question is "       proof" of my calumnies).              >.2) My activities against the Baha'is have hurt the Israeli tourism industry       >in Haifa, especially where I have claimed that the shrine on Mt Carmel is a       >cenotaph and not a real shrine because the final remains of the Bab are not       >there; they are in        Iran where they have always been.        >               I am not an expert on Baha'i or Babi stuff admittedly I've been encouraged to       do more reading and dialog on the topic thanks to this shitposting thing we've       had going on nearly 4 years now.               It doesn't really bother me if the Shrine in Haifa is merely a cenotaph and       not the actual tomb. I know you have some posts on your blog about this. I       cannot really say or even hold that it makes a difference to me.               I can ask how you know and try to re-read your articles to this effect.               My major skepticism though is your assertion that you have somehow hurt the       Israeli tourism industry. How essential are Baha'is to that industry? What       percentage of tourists to the State of Israel are driven by Baha'i religious       motivations? What numbers        can you cite to establish this claim?                      > The reason why you Zionists support the Bahaim is not for any reasons of       >principle or altruism, because you have none.               I truly do not understand what criterion you have used to establish that I and       others whom you've placed inside the "bad guy" box are Zionists of any shade.              >It is because a. they are your tools,               This is a conspiracy theory tier assertion and again a chain of causation       isn't even somewhat fleshed out.              >b. they bring you shekels,              I'm not a Jew (despite some crazy assertions of yours that I am not partially       Lebanese but a "New York Jew" even though I'm from Ohio and only was raised       some of my childhood in upstate NY and went to college in NYC and as if being       a Jew were some weird        insult. Isn't your grandma a Hamdani Jew by origin? What gives?). I am       sensitive enough to Jews though that when someone talks about being brought       the shekels there's usually a de facto Anti-Semitic trope at work.               > c. they are weaponized by you against Iran (and it wouldn't matter if Iran       >was not an Islamic Republic but something else),               Another claim without proof. As if a religious minority were a threat to any       state.              >d. they are your nodes of soft power globally and wherever they go, you go,              Now you're getting in really deep lore conspiracy theory which is bordering on       Protocols of the Elders of Zion levels of insane and bigoted. Global       conspiracy of Jews and Baha'is? I am supposed to take this seriously?              >e. they are one of the most important vehicles by which you managed to       >establish yourselves in Palestine from the late 1890s all the way to 1948.        >               Timeline of perfidy demonstrating this claim? Or will your response be "GoOgLe       iS fReE, loOk iT uP sWeAtY!"              > Given these, the religion of the Bayan, its teachings and history are       >arguably a threat to you and your interests because were these things to gain       >wider recognition, the truth about your Bahaim tools would become more widely       >understood.               I don't share your premises namely because this "background" you've invented       and projected onto me aren't objective realities but fantasies. I don't see       the Baha'is as tools in some "nexus" (your favorite word lately) of the       sinister. In any case, if we        assume your premises about both myself and others and about us being part of a       machinery of conspiracy controlled by Zionists and Duginists and utilizing       Baha'is: so what? Why or how is Babi/Bayani/Azali religion such a threat to       said imaginary nexus? (       an even smaller minority than the Baha'i, if indeed it has adherents and a       living tradition behind it and not merely your assertions. I suspect there are       small communities of Azali Babis left but I have yet to see how you fit in       with their structures of        community and authority other than your own claims.)              >Once widely understood, for starters, the human rights canards would collapse       >and with it any leverage you dibbukim hold against Iran (IR or otherwise).               The use of the term "dibbukim" is interesting. I know a "dybbuk" (as I've most       often seen it transliterated) is a demon from Jewish lore particularly       Ashkenazi and comes from the root deveq, to cleave. Your use of this word as       an insult might be        offensive if I had a Jewish background but I suspect even an actual Jew would       find it as funny as I do. You're trying too hard Nima, and your arrow keeps       hitting the wrong mark dude.                      [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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