XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: tony.kingsbury@gmail.com   
      
   On 5/09/2016 11:17 AM, brian mitchell wrote:   
   > Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 9/4/2016 1:11 PM, Kitty P wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> "Wilson"   
   >>   
   >>>> Tang Huyen:   
   >>   
   >>>> salvifically.   
   >>   
   >>>>> You can't fool me, that's not a real word.   
   >>   
   >>> Obsolete   
   >>   
   >> Whether it is a word still in use or never in use,   
   >> it should work fine in the context of salvation,   
   >> fit right in to it, because no means in general   
   >> and no word in particular, singly or altogether,   
   >> can point to salvation, the last being beyond   
   >> pointing to. Everything mustered for its sake   
   >> is going to be provisional and conventional, as   
   >> none is adequate, singly or altogether. It is no   
   >> more than inchoate babbling in admiration in   
   >> front of what is beyond admiration, and in   
   >> some circles, reputable or otherwise, it is said   
   >> to be just like selling water by the river, or in   
   >> English, selling back to you the shirt you wear   
   >> on your back. At best, it is intended as fakery   
   >> to help you get rid of your own fakery, foolery   
   >> to help you get rid of your own foolery, though   
   >> it is often sold as helping you return to your   
   >> nature, but if it is to help you return to your   
   >> nature, why should you go through inane   
   >> motions, like meditation, prayer, fasting,   
   >> bowing and scraping? Why shouldn't you be   
   >> able to get to it instantly, boom, just like that,   
   >> if it is your inalienable right? Why should it   
   >> not be delivered to you as on a platter, all   
   >> ready for consumption? The whole show   
   >> must be prestidigitation of the vilest kind.   
   >>   
   >> It can be argued that awakening is   
   >> self-evident, but if it is self-evident, why   
   >> does it need so much hard work to get to it?   
   >> And right through all that hard work, it is   
   >> said that it is nothing that can be gotten.   
   >> Holy mackerel, what kind of vicious circle is   
   >> this?   
   >>   
   >> Ah, but if you awaken, all is forgiven and all   
   >> is grace. Now that's really rich! Is there any   
   >> way to break though all that mindfuck?   
   >> What is the redeeming feature of the whole   
   >> show? You tell me!   
   >   
   > As a fan of Henry James I consider myself to have had some practice in   
   > this business, but never, in all of his long perambulant digressions   
   > into the intricate interlayering of the psychosocial traffic of his   
   > time and milieu, with its endless and apparently tireless efforts to   
   > circumvate the trappings of convention while being, at its sentient   
   > core, slaves to conventions of a deeper and less conscious kind, did I   
   > ever find myself abandoned in such an impenetrable thicket of   
   > confusion and as unable to conceive in which direction an exit might   
   > be located, as I did while trying to negotiate my way through your   
   > first paragraph. I salute you!.   
   >   
      
   :-) :-) Well said!   
      
   Tang has a lot of words - all borrowed from the most reputable sources,   
   and often in the original languages. Like the March Hare in the Mad   
   Hatter's Tea Party, he uses only the best butter to lubricate his mental   
   culture.   
      
   Usually, however, although he has a lot of thoughts, he seems to have   
   only one feeling - rather forlorn & woebegone - "I haven't got it"   
      
   This sometimes generates a secondary feeling "I must squash anyone who   
   thinks they have it! That'll make me feel better"   
      
   "squash", of course, is a bit blunt. Ninja stars are shiny and pointed.   
   But, alas, he doesn't have those either, they're all make-believe. Paper   
   darts.   
      
   Why? Because what he's looking for can't be found in the pages of a   
   book. It doesn't exist in the past. The sparkling ninja stars, faster   
   than thought - have nothing to do with 'mental culture'. That's just   
   digging over tired old vegetable plots in case a dry seed or a mummified   
   root might've got left behind. The stars have a lot to do with right   
   now. Living wisdom.   
      
   Or, to put it another way - anyone, even the most serene and pontifical   
   polymath, hoping to find (or pretending to have found)'enlightenment' in   
   a library, is like a starving man sitting in a room surrounded by recipe   
   books. It doesn't matter how old the recipes are, or how venerable they   
   may be, or what sumptuous repasts they might record. Any sensible person   
   would trade them all for a can of baked beans.   
      
   * we all come into this world with a can of baked beans. Standard issue.   
   Living light. Luminous clarity. Inbuilt wisdom and serenity.   
   Enlightenment isn't something that's added to us if we read the right   
   books, or do the requisite number of ritual prostrations. It's our   
   birthright.   
      
   But of course, baked beans don't have a Michelin rating, don't cost a   
   lot, don't come with a "FOR QUALIFIED SPIRITUAL MASTERS ONLY" tag - you   
   don't get a whole lot of strut & bling out of a can of beans, especially   
   if everyone has one. Even those of low mental culture.   
   And there's a problem. You have to be smart enough to find the guy with   
   the can-opener, & humble enough to ask him how to use it. Too hard for   
   most scholars. Easier just to say, stoically, "That's life! I don't need   
   real food - I'll settle for feeling important and respected"   
      
   How do you protect this stance? 2 ways.   
      
   * announce loudly "of course, I don't know what I'm talking about - I'm   
   not enlightened!" - serenely confident that everyone will understand   
   that only a massively enlightened spiritual master would be capable of   
   making such a claim.   
      
   * "it's just words on a screen - so if it pricks a little bit, it   
   doesn't matter" . This is the equivalent of saying that since human   
   beings are just molecules of carbon & oxygen & hydrogen & calcium   
   whirling around, we don't need to pay any attention to what they feel,   
   or think, or do.   
      
   But, keep it up, dear wise and compassionate Uncle Tang. To be addressed   
   from such Olympian heights is endlessly entertaining, as well as provoking.   
      
   But, - instead of putting together a patchwork quilt of sayings of past   
   worthies, who may or may not have known what they were talking about -   
   and who in any case are so dead that they can't possibly be questioned   
   about it - don't you think it might be more fun to get out there &   
   experience the truth for yourself?   
   Just a thought. Reality can be a teenie-weenie bit more exciting than   
   fossilized ideas.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)