XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.philosophy.taoism   
   From: cuddly@mindless.com   
      
   On 9/10/2016 5:14 AM, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   > On 9/9/2016 4:58 PM, Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >   
   >> So how would it be if you abandoned the view that 'enlightenment will   
   >> result if you abandon all views'?   
   >>   
   >> Which isn't possible, of course. Our minds insist on us having a view or   
   >> opinion about *everything* we encounter.   
   >   
   > Ummie dear, How could you possibly know that   
   > it is impossible to abandon all views? How could   
   > you possibly know that "Our minds insist on us   
   > having a view or opinion about *everything* we   
   > encounter"? Have you perchance read all minds,   
   > past, present and future, anywhere on earth,   
   > including minds of dead people and unborn   
   > people?   
   >   
   > I freely admit that I have been nowhere near   
   > abandoning all views, meaning intellective views.   
   > But I read that some sages say so, ostensibly   
   > from their own experience. So to me it is mere   
   > hearsay. And I freely admit that I do not live up   
   > to norms and standards that I proclaim. I refrain   
   > from abusively universalising my views to all   
   > humans, though I trust those sages who   
   > declaim their (presumed) experience, namely   
   > that they can and do abandon all views. It is to   
   > me a noble ideal that I may or may not attain in   
   > this life. And if I cannot attain it, I can yet relax   
   > and be serene, about it and everything else, at   
   > least to some extent and once in a while, even   
   > as I know that I often fail.   
   >   
   > You can enjoy certainty all you want. I am sadly   
   > not equipped for that.   
   >   
   > Tang Huyen   
      
      
   Buddhist enlightenment must mean enlightenment with regards to   
   as many views as one is capable of while not   
   holding fast to any one view in particular.  Why is it said   
   that a Buddha can remember all past lives he has lived ? And   
   is it anywhere said that he preferred one over another of his past lives ?   
      
   People holding on to opinions, wishes and prescriptions - saying   
   this is so and cannot be otherwise, are soon left behind as   
   life passes them by.  Peace and quietude are fine as goals of   
   spiritual development, but what are they without   
   the knowledge of what not having peace and quietude signifies?   
   Thus imo the sage is one who has lived many lives, seen much,   
   done much, loved much - died a thousand deaths, much :)   
   He is the holder of many views on life, in full awareness   
   of what each has cost him, thus has he earned his equanimity   
   with regards to all views.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)