XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   liaM  wrote:   
   > On 9/10/2016 5:14 AM, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >> On 9/9/2016 4:58 PM, Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> So how would it be if you abandoned the view that 'enlightenment will   
   >>> result if you abandon all views'?   
   >>>   
   >>> Which isn't possible, of course. Our minds insist on us having a view or   
   >>> opinion about *everything* we encounter.   
   >>   
   >> Ummie dear, How could you possibly know that   
   >> it is impossible to abandon all views? How could   
   >> you possibly know that "Our minds insist on us   
   >> having a view or opinion about *everything* we   
   >> encounter"? Have you perchance read all minds,   
   >> past, present and future, anywhere on earth,   
   >> including minds of dead people and unborn   
   >> people?   
   >>   
   >> I freely admit that I have been nowhere near   
   >> abandoning all views, meaning intellective views.   
   >> But I read that some sages say so, ostensibly   
   >> from their own experience. So to me it is mere   
   >> hearsay. And I freely admit that I do not live up   
   >> to norms and standards that I proclaim. I refrain   
   >> from abusively universalising my views to all   
   >> humans, though I trust those sages who   
   >> declaim their (presumed) experience, namely   
   >> that they can and do abandon all views. It is to   
   >> me a noble ideal that I may or may not attain in   
   >> this life. And if I cannot attain it, I can yet relax   
   >> and be serene, about it and everything else, at   
   >> least to some extent and once in a while, even   
   >> as I know that I often fail.   
   >>   
   >> You can enjoy certainty all you want. I am sadly   
   >> not equipped for that.   
   >>   
   >> Tang Huyen   
   >   
   >   
   > Buddhist enlightenment must mean enlightenment with regards to   
   > as many views as one is capable of while not   
   > holding fast to any one view in particular.  Why is it said   
   > that a Buddha can remember all past lives he has lived ? And   
   > is it anywhere said that he preferred one over another of his past lives ?   
      
   No comment from me regarding past-lives, other than that I don't know   
   whether I've lived before; but if I had lived before, it seems like this   
   life would have been less difficult, had I recalled *something*, anything,   
   from a past-life.  I can only conclude that either past-lives are memories   
   of dreams, or this is my first time in the barrel.  I also conclude that it   
   probably doesn't matter, since this is the life we're in the middle of, not   
   the circumstances of some possibly-remembered past-life; we brought with us   
   what we are, which damn-well better be enough, because it's all we have.   
      
   >   
   > People holding on to opinions, wishes and prescriptions - saying   
   > this is so and cannot be otherwise, are soon left behind as   
   > life passes them by.  Peace and quietude are fine as goals of   
   > spiritual development, but what are they without   
   > the knowledge of what not having peace and quietude signifies?   
   > Thus imo the sage is one who has lived many lives, seen much,   
   > done much, loved much - died a thousand deaths, much :)   
   > He is the holder of many views on life, in full awareness   
   > of what each has cost him, thus has he earned his equanimity   
   > with regards to all views.   
   >   
      
   Well-expressed imo.   
      
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