XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
From: cuddly@mindless.com
On 9/16/2016 11:42 AM, noname wrote:
> liaM wrote:
>> On 9/16/2016 1:07 AM, noname wrote:
>>> liaM wrote:
>>>> On 9/15/2016 11:55 AM, noname wrote:
>>>>> liaM wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/14/2016 9:55 PM, Julian wrote:
>>>>>>> On 14/09/2016 21:25, noname wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are no random mutations. None. Everything is mutating, all the
>>>>>>>> time. Then people come along and look at the survivors and say
>>>>>>>> they're the
>>>>>>>> result of "random" mutations. There's nothing "random" about it,
>>>>>>>> those are
>>>>>>>> the few of the infinite number of different kinds of survivors who
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> survived.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything random at all?
>>>>>>> I suspect it is just a name for things not yet understood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny thing, I posted this french post awhile ago hoping TH would pick
>>>>>> up on it. It's authored by a friend. It answers your question..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see if I can manage a quick translation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "As it happens, Allah creates the Universe anew every iota of time and
>>>>>> thus is the existence of any sort of causal relationship impossible in
>>>>>> the world."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/5/2016 2:15 PM, Ahmed Ouahi, Architect wrote :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> À savoir qu'à chaque atome de temps essentiellement qui s'écoule
>>>>>>> Allah crée à nouveau le monde tout entier et qu'ainsi n'en
puisse-t-il
>>>>>>> Aucunement exister dans le monde aucune sorte de relation causale
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea that the world is not continuous, but is manifest over and over
in
>>>>> response to the choices of sentient beings everywhere, is one not often
>>>>> seen. Your author has concluded that it makes causality impossible, but
I
>>>>> conclude that causality is the very essence of it all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget Chaos without which human beings would be as boring as
>>>> robots :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> True chaos is the total and absolute absence of order. In true chaos
>>> nothing is temporally related to anything, shit just goes on with no rhyme
>>> or reason, our brains wouldn't work right for a second in true chaos, where
>>> nothing is related to anything else, and it's all just chaos-soup. In true
>>> chaos, humans wouldn't be any more or less boring than the rest of the
>>> soup, because human bodies are highly ordered; being highly ordered, they
>>> physically cannot exist in absolute chaos.
>>>
>>> At the top of the conceptual pyramid is total order, at the bottom no order
>>> at all; above is the non-manifest realm, below that the realm we exist in,
>>> the manifestaton of all that is above, firmly above chaos as evidenced by
>>> the fact that we can detect order in our environment, sits humanity,
>>> convinced that the elephant is its leg.
>>>
>>> imo.
>>>
>>
>>
>> You define chaos for the earthly plane.
>
> I just said what "chaos" means. Chaos is the absence of order. True chaos
> does not exist on the earthly plane.
>
>> Mine refers to the mathematical
>> evidence of its unpredictability
>
> Mathematical evidence is simply that, deriving statistical statements from
> a history of actual occurrences. It doesn't say why this or why that, it
> only says how much.
>
>> and as a never ending source of all
>> that's interesting on earth and in the heavens.
>>
>
> Chaos does not exist. Even when you point to this as chaotic and that as
> ordered, by so doing you have split the universe into two pieces and thus
> created order. Chaos and order cannot coexist, pointing at order destroys
> chaos, which did not exist to begin with if there was order in existence to
> point at, or anyone to do the pointing.
>
> Now, assuming (and it's a big assumption) that you can accept that chaos
> does not exist, what does that do to the inexplicable? In other words, how
> does the absence of true chaos fit with the rest of what we know? We know
> that things happen unpredictably, how does that fit with the idea that
> nothing happens without cause or reason?
>
> Things do not happen "unpredictably", they happen in ways we cannot
> precisely predict. They happen for reasons unrelated to mathematical
> evidence. Mathematical evidence relates only to the past, and occurrence
> relates only to the future. The reasons things happen are mysterious,
> meaning: they exist in the realm of mystery, which is prior-to and
> superior-to the realm of manifestation. If science was perfected and all
> data for the entirety of the physical universe was stored in some
> out-of-the-way computer, future events would still not be absolutely
> predictable. The reasons for the events wouldn't be visible because events
> aren't caused by the calculations of some computer that was claimed to
> contain every fact but could not additionally contain the facts of itself.
>
> People want absolute predictability, the unpredictable is worrisome to
> human folks. They want to know where it came from, whether they can trust
> it. They want it tame and scientific. It does exist. but it is neither
> tame nor scientific; people want to wish it away, and they think science is
> a sure-fire tool for that. It isn't.
>
White noise is a (small) window to chaos as it exists atomically. As
is the sun, a (larger) window.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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