XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   {:-])))  wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> David Raleigh Arnold wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> Because there is no true self or soul, at   
   >>> some point knowing oneself becomes wallowing   
   >>> in delusion. You want to know your enemies   
   >>> instead: lobha, dosa, and moha. Metta, Rale   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> If you don't have a true self, then you are a fake.   
   >   
   > Between having and being might be a not very fine line.   
   >   
   > If one does not have a true self, then one might have   
   > a fake self. Or simply not have any self. Not true nor fake.   
   >   
   > If one is a self, then that is at least a portion of what one is.   
   >   
   > If one has a true self,   
   > then what or who is the one that is having it?   
   >   
   >> Why is your fake self posting to this newsgroup - trying to correct   
   >> misapprehensions?   
   >>   
   >> A fake self is only going to disseminate misinformation.   
   >> And if it is spreading lies to a constellation of other fake selves,   
   >> what on earth is the point?   
   >   
   > Sometimes people dance simply to dance.   
   > When they are selfless they are at ease.   
   > Unselfconscious they dance as they please.   
   >   
   > There is no ultimate point.   
   > Some would rather the music never ends.   
   > They aren't trying to get to the other side   
   > of the floor, as fast as they can.   
   >   
   >> Seems to me there *is* at least one person "wallowing in delusion" here.   
   >>   
   >> But I agree that our true self, when encountered, may not seem to bear   
   >> any resemblance to the "soul" as defined by traditional Christianity.   
   >> For one thing, it can be known to be perfect and unsulliable. Neither   
   >> dented by experience nor stained by sin. Not punished for being "bad"   
   >> nor rewarded for being 'good'. Not needing to be 'enlightened', because   
   >> it is always full of light. Not needing 'liberation' because it is   
   >> always free. Not needing to be 'saved' because it was never lost. Not   
   >> needing to be 'awakened' because it never sleeps.   
   >>   
   >> It has no enemy except ignorance   
   >   
   > One might wonder why such a true self would post here,   
   > if all true selves are perfect, unsulliable, full of light, free, etc.   
   > if there would be any point, on earth, or elsewhere.   
   >   
   > Unless, the one that has a true self   
   > is not the true self but something else.   
   >   
   > Something that has but not is.   
   >   
      
   Between a true self and an exterior self might be another line.   
      
   The difference between a true-self that is owned by the exterior-self,   
   and an exterior-self owned by the true-self,   
   can be the difference between freedom and slavery.   
      
   The exterior-self is the one society meets at its face,   
   the true-self is the one left to pay society's dues, at the time and price   
   of society's pleasure.   
      
   Society manipulates the exterior-self, to society's advantage.  When the   
   exterior-self smiles and conforms, society is happy to let the exterior   
   self do as it pleases.  It is one with society, and the Borg takes care of   
   its own, as it will, or spends them as fodder, without a care.   
      
   The exterior-self is where the exterior desires reside.   
   When the exterior-self wants something, the true self is dragged along for   
   the ride, happy or not, a passenger within the exterior tinfoil that   
   society laid down while the true-self was helpless and immature, and such a   
   true-self can scream all it wants, without being heard on the exterior,   
   while the exterior self smiles.   
      
   The screaming is what Buddhism calls "suffering".  The tinfoil hat is   
   scaffolding parents and teachers applied, like the shell of an egg, while   
   the true-self was helpless and ignorant.  When it outlasts its time, when   
   the accoutrements drive the self, it is an outgrown shell, a carapace grown   
   useless, unnecessary, and harmful to the true-self within, preventing its   
   growth beyond the limits society laid down from childhood, the   
   exterior-self.   
      
   When a suit of protective armor takes over and suppresses the true-self, a   
   conflict between inner and outer arises.  When the exterior-self prevails,   
   the true-self is locked away to wither and eventually die.  When the   
   true-self prevails, it properly bursts the shell and hatches to full life   
   and the freedom called "awakening".   
      
   There are many cycles the world passes through.  Those who wrote the   
   I-Ching seemed to think they had those states named, and that there are 64   
   of them.  That is the eggshell of their philosophy, the part that can be   
   seen by exterior-selves.  Those who pass through the cycles learn to   
   recognize them as life continues.   
      
   One is the cycle of hatching, where the true-self and the exterior-self   
   together decide whether the true-self is yet strong enough to show its face   
   to the world.  When the true-self recognizes a truth, the egg squeezes it   
   to hold back the unready.  When the true-self is ready, neither the   
   exterior-self nor the world needs to hold it back any longer.  It bursts   
   the egg, the individual awakens in fullness, and meets the world as it is.   
      
   Then the fun begins, the true-self has accumulated the experience needed to   
   be an excellent critic of the society it hatched in, and between one   
   true-self and one world-as-all, changes may occur, and society may be   
   reshaped, or burst asunder, as the protective shell that it is becomes an   
   unnecessary part of the past.   
      
   --   
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