XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 7/10/2016 12:32 AM, {:-]))) wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> David Raleigh Arnold wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> Because there is no true self or soul, at   
   >>> some point knowing oneself becomes wallowing   
   >>> in delusion. You want to know your enemies   
   >>> instead: lobha, dosa, and moha. Metta, Rale   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> If you don't have a true self, then you are a fake.   
   >   
   > Between having and being might be a not very fine line.   
   >   
   > If one does not have a true self, then one might have   
   > a fake self. Or simply not have any self. Not true nor fake.   
   >   
   > If one is a self, then that is at least a portion of what one is.   
   >   
   > If one has a true self,   
   > then what or who is the one that is having it?   
   >   
   >> Why is your fake self posting to this newsgroup - trying to correct   
   >> misapprehensions?   
   >>   
   >> A fake self is only going to disseminate misinformation.   
   >> And if it is spreading lies to a constellation of other fake selves,   
   >> what on earth is the point?   
   >   
   > Sometimes people dance simply to dance.   
   > When they are selfless they are at ease.   
   > Unselfconscious they dance as they please.   
   >   
   > There is no ultimate point.   
   > Some would rather the music never ends.   
   > They aren't trying to get to the other side   
   > of the floor, as fast as they can.   
   >   
   >> Seems to me there *is* at least one person "wallowing in delusion" here.   
   >>   
   >> But I agree that our true self, when encountered, may not seem to bear   
   >> any resemblance to the "soul" as defined by traditional Christianity.   
   >> For one thing, it can be known to be perfect and unsulliable. Neither   
   >> dented by experience nor stained by sin. Not punished for being "bad"   
   >> nor rewarded for being 'good'. Not needing to be 'enlightened', because   
   >> it is always full of light. Not needing 'liberation' because it is   
   >> always free. Not needing to be 'saved' because it was never lost. Not   
   >> needing to be 'awakened' because it never sleeps.   
   >>   
   >> It has no enemy except ignorance   
   >   
   > One might wonder why such a true self would post here,   
   > if all true selves are perfect, unsulliable, full of light, free, etc.   
   > if there would be any point, on earth, or elsewhere.   
      
   You misunderstand me. I'm not pretending to be any of those things.   
   What i call "the true self" is not a vesture, or set of ceremonial   
   robes, for the ego to strut around in.   
      
   The way some people pretend to be Taoists, or Zennists, or polymath   
   scholars.   
      
   It's not a description of an ideal person, or a saint or a sage.   
      
   It's a Presence to be enjoyed, wondered at, delighted in.   
   The Presence in the Present.   
      
   It doesn't act. It doesn't go anywhere. It's the still point of the   
   turning world.It can be heard, seen, tasted, felt.   
   It's in every human being.   
   To know it is to know that all histories, dharmas, scriptures, dogmas,   
   rituals, intellectual arguments about the nature of reality, are   
   irrelevant. They all try to build bridges between the past and the   
   future. The true self exists only in the present.   
      
   It's beyond thought, and beyond imagination - and it's very, very real.   
   Because it's in everyone, it can be known by anyone. There are no   
   barriers of race, sex, belief, education, economic status, age.   
      
   The point of posting here is not to tell you anything new, but to remind   
   you of something you may have forgotten.   
   You knew it way back then, when life was fun.   
      
   >   
   > Unless, the one that has a true self   
   > is not the true self but something else.   
   >   
   > Something that has but not is.   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)