XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 7/10/2016 1:55 AM, liaM wrote:   
   > On 10/6/2016 5:43 AM, Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> On 5/10/2016 11:59 AM, brian mitchell wrote:   
   >>> "Ned Ludd" wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:8gu7vbhk6v4dlqf11npoku6gn5087pvup4@4ax.com...   
   >>>>> "Ned Ludd" wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>  Where is that Theravada quote?  It's a great quote.  Nagarjuna   
   >>>>>> used it, I believe, to help monks NOT think about women, but the   
   >>>>>> quote is actually just a description of a human being, any human   
   >>>>>> being.  Ah yes...   
   >>>>>> ---   
   >>>>>> Full of many kinds of filth, producer of much excrement, as ripe as a   
   >>>>>> midden-pool, a tumor, a great wound filled up with pus and blood, as   
   >>>>>> though   
   >>>>>> sunk in a cesspit the body oozes water and ever filth outflows. Tied   
   >>>>>> together by sixty tendons and plastered with plaster of flesh,   
   >>>>>> tightly   
   >>>>>> jacketed with skin - with no value, this body of filth. A connected   
   >>>>>> skeleton   
   >>>>>> of bones bound together with sinew cords producing various   
   >>>>>> postures by   
   >>>>>> conditioned things combined. Set out with certainty of death and   
   >>>>>> near to   
   >>>>>> King Mortality but having rejected it just here a man goes as he   
   >>>>>> likes.   
   >>>>>> Covered over with ignorance and tied with the fourfold tie,   
   >>>>>> enmeshed in   
   >>>>>> the   
   >>>>>> net of tendencies this body sinks in the flood.  Hitched to the five   
   >>>>>> hindrances and so, affected by thoughts, accompanied by craving's   
   >>>>>> root and   
   >>>>>> wrapped by delusion's wrappings - this body continues on, made to   
   >>>>>> go by   
   >>>>>> kamma's means, its existence in the end destroyed, all sorts of   
   >>>>>> beings   
   >>>>>> perish. Those ordinary people, blinded fools, thinking their bodies   
   >>>>>> belong   
   >>>>>> to them fill up the fearful cemeteries and seize repeated birth.   
   >>>>>> Those who   
   >>>>>> abandon this body as one would a dung-smeared snake, having vomited   
   >>>>>> being's   
   >>>>>> root, will, taintless, Nibbana attain.   
   >>>>>> - Verses of the Elder Bhikkhus 567-576   
   >>>>>> ---   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> So, can we agree that this is a valid description of each and   
   >>>>>> every one of us?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Absolutely not, for the flesh is the avenue of all delights, at least   
   >>>>> if one includes the brain in the flesh.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Isn't that quote just as dualistic in intent, body vs mind, as   
   >>>>> dividing consciousness into watcher and watched? There's quite a   
   >>>>> puritanical streak to be found in Buddhist texts, imo.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>  Of course it is dualistic.  It's the worst kind of dualism, because   
   >>>> it makes people hate their bodies.  You, me and everyone is alive   
   >>>> because 30 trillion cells in our body are working their asses off   
   >>>> 24/7 to keep us alive.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>  'Puritanical' is a pale indictment of much Buddhist thought. Are   
   >>>> we on the same page that the original, over-arching, fundamental   
   >>>> goal of Buddhism, was the elimination of desire, to the point of   
   >>>> "not returning", ie. not coming back, not continuing the endless   
   >>>> cycles of samsara?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>  How bleak is that?  What kind of medicine is that quote?  If we   
   >>>> are to assume that all the sutras are medicine set forth to combat   
   >>>> a disease, what medicine is the above "Body Bag" quote, from the   
   >>>> Sutta Pitaka?  And by extension, how powerful and deadly is the   
   >>>> disease that it is set forth to combat?   
   >>>   
   >>>  I suppose I should turn in my Buddhist Badge; I can't see life   
   >>> as either disease or disaster. Someone show me something better.   
   >>>   
   >> Something better might be - life as fun!   
   >> All of it - body and mind, feelings and intellect, desires and wisdom.   
   >> We're all part of the Big Bang! It's still banging away. Exuberant   
   >> energy expressing itself in every possible way.   
   >> Does it seem to you that the Hubble telescope reveals that what we think   
   >> of us the Universe most resembles a massive fireworks display?   
   >>   
   >> If you feel enslaved or imprisoned, you'll shoot for "Liberation"   
   >> If you feel confused or ignorant, you'll shoot for "Enlightenment"   
   >> If you feel guilty or frightened, you'll shoot for "Salvation"   
   >> If you feel bored you'll shoot for "Satori"   
   >>   
   >> These are all learned behaviours, mental aberrations, and all the cures   
   >> are fake. Children don't do any of these things.   
   >>   
   >> Peel away the layers, and you will find, deep within yourself, the child   
   >> you've always been. Always free, always wild, always looking for fun,   
   >> joy, inner peace. Never settling for second-best.   
   >>   
   >> That's a whole lot better, IMO, than hating the body, fighting desires,   
   >> trying to appease an implacable, vindictive god, trying to locate the   
   >> Tao in a maze of self-reflecting mirrors. These are grown-up games.   
   >> Quite dull. At least, they seem so to me :-)   
   >   
   >   
   > You enjoy quite a happy-go-lucky attitude to life, ummmmm  -  worthy of   
   > one who is happily unenlightened.  Who needs enlightenment..?!   
   >   
   > Well, there's a reason the Buddha's humanistic philosophy begins an   
   > advice to people starting out in life to go visit hospitals, hospices,   
   > shanty towns, etc.  Posting as you are on absfg, you probably know what   
   > the reason was.  So why are you giving this advice of yours in such   
   > cavalier fashion..   
   >   
   > Stupidity?   
   >   
   >   
   Yes, sheer stupidity.   
   Fools rush in where angels fear to tread - and absfg is so full of   
   angels that it needs an idiot or two to redress the cosmic balance.   
      
   Whatever you practice, you become good at.   
      
   It's easy to concentrate on death, despair, disease, disaster, greed,   
   anger, deceit, lies - just pick up any newspaper, or turn on any news   
   channel. Some people think they owe it to themselves to wallow in every   
   bucketful of misery the media throws at them.   
      
   At any given moment there is just as much good news as there is bad   
   news. But it doesn't pay. It doesn't satisfy the ravenous hunger of the   
   ghouls for images of murder and bloodshed.   
      
   If you practice tuning in to serenity, wisdom, compassion you'll become   
   good at it.   
      
   My cavalier advice - look, the cup is half full, not half empty!   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)