XPost: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: cuddly@mindless.com   
      
   On 10/7/2016 1:03 AM, Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   > On 7/10/2016 1:55 AM, liaM wrote:   
   >> On 10/6/2016 5:43 AM, Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>> On 5/10/2016 11:59 AM, brian mitchell wrote:   
   >>>> "Ned Ludd" wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> news:8gu7vbhk6v4dlqf11npoku6gn5087pvup4@4ax.com...   
   >>>>>> "Ned Ludd" wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>  Where is that Theravada quote?  It's a great quote.  Nagarjuna   
   >>>>>>> used it, I believe, to help monks NOT think about women, but the   
   >>>>>>> quote is actually just a description of a human being, any human   
   >>>>>>> being.  Ah yes...   
   >>>>>>> ---   
   >>>>>>> Full of many kinds of filth, producer of much excrement, as ripe   
   >>>>>>> as a   
   >>>>>>> midden-pool, a tumor, a great wound filled up with pus and blood, as   
   >>>>>>> though   
   >>>>>>> sunk in a cesspit the body oozes water and ever filth outflows. Tied   
   >>>>>>> together by sixty tendons and plastered with plaster of flesh,   
   >>>>>>> tightly   
   >>>>>>> jacketed with skin - with no value, this body of filth. A connected   
   >>>>>>> skeleton   
   >>>>>>> of bones bound together with sinew cords producing various   
   >>>>>>> postures by   
   >>>>>>> conditioned things combined. Set out with certainty of death and   
   >>>>>>> near to   
   >>>>>>> King Mortality but having rejected it just here a man goes as he   
   >>>>>>> likes.   
   >>>>>>> Covered over with ignorance and tied with the fourfold tie,   
   >>>>>>> enmeshed in   
   >>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>> net of tendencies this body sinks in the flood.  Hitched to the five   
   >>>>>>> hindrances and so, affected by thoughts, accompanied by craving's   
   >>>>>>> root and   
   >>>>>>> wrapped by delusion's wrappings - this body continues on, made to   
   >>>>>>> go by   
   >>>>>>> kamma's means, its existence in the end destroyed, all sorts of   
   >>>>>>> beings   
   >>>>>>> perish. Those ordinary people, blinded fools, thinking their bodies   
   >>>>>>> belong   
   >>>>>>> to them fill up the fearful cemeteries and seize repeated birth.   
   >>>>>>> Those who   
   >>>>>>> abandon this body as one would a dung-smeared snake, having vomited   
   >>>>>>> being's   
   >>>>>>> root, will, taintless, Nibbana attain.   
   >>>>>>> - Verses of the Elder Bhikkhus 567-576   
   >>>>>>> ---   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So, can we agree that this is a valid description of each and   
   >>>>>>> every one of us?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Absolutely not, for the flesh is the avenue of all delights, at least   
   >>>>>> if one includes the brain in the flesh.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Isn't that quote just as dualistic in intent, body vs mind, as   
   >>>>>> dividing consciousness into watcher and watched? There's quite a   
   >>>>>> puritanical streak to be found in Buddhist texts, imo.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>  Of course it is dualistic.  It's the worst kind of dualism, because   
   >>>>> it makes people hate their bodies.  You, me and everyone is alive   
   >>>>> because 30 trillion cells in our body are working their asses off   
   >>>>> 24/7 to keep us alive.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>  'Puritanical' is a pale indictment of much Buddhist thought. Are   
   >>>>> we on the same page that the original, over-arching, fundamental   
   >>>>> goal of Buddhism, was the elimination of desire, to the point of   
   >>>>> "not returning", ie. not coming back, not continuing the endless   
   >>>>> cycles of samsara?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>  How bleak is that?  What kind of medicine is that quote?  If we   
   >>>>> are to assume that all the sutras are medicine set forth to combat   
   >>>>> a disease, what medicine is the above "Body Bag" quote, from the   
   >>>>> Sutta Pitaka?  And by extension, how powerful and deadly is the   
   >>>>> disease that it is set forth to combat?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>  I suppose I should turn in my Buddhist Badge; I can't see life   
   >>>> as either disease or disaster. Someone show me something better.   
   >>>>   
   >>> Something better might be - life as fun!   
   >>> All of it - body and mind, feelings and intellect, desires and wisdom.   
   >>> We're all part of the Big Bang! It's still banging away. Exuberant   
   >>> energy expressing itself in every possible way.   
   >>> Does it seem to you that the Hubble telescope reveals that what we think   
   >>> of us the Universe most resembles a massive fireworks display?   
   >>>   
   >>> If you feel enslaved or imprisoned, you'll shoot for "Liberation"   
   >>> If you feel confused or ignorant, you'll shoot for "Enlightenment"   
   >>> If you feel guilty or frightened, you'll shoot for "Salvation"   
   >>> If you feel bored you'll shoot for "Satori"   
   >>>   
   >>> These are all learned behaviours, mental aberrations, and all the cures   
   >>> are fake. Children don't do any of these things.   
   >>>   
   >>> Peel away the layers, and you will find, deep within yourself, the child   
   >>> you've always been. Always free, always wild, always looking for fun,   
   >>> joy, inner peace. Never settling for second-best.   
   >>>   
   >>> That's a whole lot better, IMO, than hating the body, fighting desires,   
   >>> trying to appease an implacable, vindictive god, trying to locate the   
   >>> Tao in a maze of self-reflecting mirrors. These are grown-up games.   
   >>> Quite dull. At least, they seem so to me :-)   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> You enjoy quite a happy-go-lucky attitude to life, ummmmm  -  worthy of   
   >> one who is happily unenlightened.  Who needs enlightenment..?!   
   >>   
   >> Well, there's a reason the Buddha's humanistic philosophy begins an   
   >> advice to people starting out in life to go visit hospitals, hospices,   
   >> shanty towns, etc.  Posting as you are on absfg, you probably know what   
   >> the reason was.  So why are you giving this advice of yours in such   
   >> cavalier fashion..   
   >>   
   >> Stupidity?   
   >>   
   >>   
   > Yes, sheer stupidity.   
   > Fools rush in where angels fear to tread - and absfg is so full of   
   > angels that it needs an idiot or two to redress the cosmic balance.   
   >   
   > Whatever you practice, you become good at.   
   >   
   > It's easy to concentrate on death, despair, disease, disaster, greed,   
   > anger, deceit, lies - just pick up any newspaper, or turn on any news   
   > channel. Some people think they owe it to themselves to wallow in every   
   > bucketful of misery the media throws at them.   
   >   
   > At any given moment there is just as much good news as there is bad   
   > news. But it doesn't pay. It doesn't satisfy the ravenous hunger of the   
   > ghouls for images of murder and bloodshed.   
   >   
   > If you practice tuning in to serenity, wisdom, compassion you'll become   
   > good at it.   
   >   
   > My cavalier advice - look, the cup is half full, not half empty!   
   >>   
   >   
      
      
   You don't get it.  How's your sex life ?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)