XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 8/10/2016 1:06 AM, {:-]))) wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>>> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> One might wonder why such a true self would post here,   
   >>>>> if all true selves are perfect, unsulliable, full of light, free, etc.   
   >>>>> if there would be any point, on earth, or elsewhere.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You misunderstand me.   
   >>>   
   >>> I tend to misunderstand most everyone in ways.   
   >>>   
   >>>> I'm not pretending to be any of those things.   
   >>>   
   >>> I wonder at times about Tang, pretending not to be   
   >>> what he claims that is he isn't in his disclaimers.   
   >>>   
   >>> Perhaps you are both the same. And everything is the same.   
   >>> Or similar if not the same. In some different ways.   
   >>   
   >> You love to hide in a mist of word-play and puns. Sometimes it works,   
   >> mostly it doesn't.   
   >   
   > I've noticed that, it doesn't, lots of times, in communication.   
   >   
   > Usually that's when someone else's mind is already made up.   
   > In his or her own mind, he or she thinks in his/her own Way.   
   >   
   > It works especially bad when, say, walking into a bar.   
   >   
   > Normally, one would assume the bar is visible.   
   > And people wouldn't bang their heads on it.   
   >   
   > But mostly I write just to write. I'm a happy camper.   
   > I ignore what doesn't work, and all bad news, etc.   
   >   
   > Which reminds me, it's time to make coffee.   
   > Please excuse any typographical errors.   
   > I've only reread this, this far.   
   >   
   >> If we're to understand each other, let's speak clearly and simply.   
   >> As Noah said, very wisely I thought "Post humble words, quiet words,   
   >> without intent."   
   >>   
   >> And let Tang speak for himself. He's not being attacked, so he doesn't   
   >> need defending.   
   >   
   > Tang can speak all he wants to. Or be silent, if he cares to.   
   >   
   > I don't care either way, and I write as I write, such as eye dew.   
   >   
   > You can post what you think are humble words, and be happy.   
   >   
   > You might think you have no intent. And really believe that.   
   > Except, it appears to me, as if you do intend to post your words.   
   > And you don't seem at all humble, but, rather arrogant.   
   >   
   > Maybe that's just my own reflection I see in you   
   > as I project my own super-huge ego on to words you write.   
   >   
   > You seem to want other people to be happy. To see things   
   > as you see things. To see how you point and to what.   
      
   Nailed again!   
   Sometimes I think I only visit here to subject myself to verbal   
   acupuncture! I'm sure it's very therapeutic.   
      
   >   
   > And you assume others don't. That is presumptuous, of you.   
   >   
   >>>> What i call "the true self" is not a vesture, or set of ceremonial   
   >>>> robes, for the ego to strut around in.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The way some people pretend to be Taoists, or Zennists, or polymath   
   >>>> scholars.   
   >>>   
   >>> Perhaps they are not pretending.   
   >>> Maybe their true selves are expressing themselves.   
   >>>   
   >>> But, one sees them thru a filter.   
   >>> A mirror of sorts. Maybe.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It's not a description of an ideal person, or a saint or a sage.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's a Presence to be enjoyed, wondered at, delighted in.   
   >>>> The Presence in the Present.   
   >>>   
   >>> Some true selves play for keeps. Very serious. Involved. Totally.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It doesn't act.   
   >>>   
   >>> Then it can't play.   
   >>   
   >> Like a cool lake on a hot day, it invites us to play in it. Or as a   
   >> breeze invites a child to launch a kite.   
   >   
   > Or like a very dramatic, tragic, horrible play. One that involves   
   > those who go to the show and don't see things your way.   
      
   If you want to see life as a tragic, horrible play - that's your choice.   
   There are people, apparently, who love to watch Texas Chainsaw   
   Massacres. I find that very hard to understand - the closest I get is to   
   think they're either very sick or very mad.   
      
   >   
   >>> Unless, if it does, wu-wei.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It doesn't go anywhere. It's the still point of the   
   >>>> turning world.It can be heard, seen, tasted, felt.   
   >>>> It's in every human being.   
   >>>   
   >>> Then it's different from every human being.   
   >>> Being different, no one is one's true self.   
   >>   
   >> It is different from everything you might think or imagine. Definitions   
   >> fall off it like water from a duck's back.   
   >> But your logic is false. Being unique, everyone is one's true self -   
   >> unless one is projecting a false image and calling it "Me"   
   >   
   > Then, to say everyone has a true self   
   > might be to divide what is undivided to begin with.   
   >   
   > A way in which noname phrased it, that one is born, pure, and true   
   > but that one's true nature gets all covered over, indoctrinated,   
   > by the culture in which one grows.   
   >   
   > Just as you said, to peel away the layers, can be to rediscover it.   
   >   
   > And just as someone else said, with an onion, there is no middle.   
   >   
   > And as yet another said, there's always a middle,   
   > no matter if there's nothing in the center.   
   >   
   > But if you presume no one gets it, except you, then   
   > that is your presumption that you bring with you.   
      
   I don't presume, I know, that everyone who wants to can 'get it' -   
   because they've already got it. It's inside of you, as it is in me.   
      
   >   
   >> That's why the Master holds up a mirror for us to look into - so we can   
   >> see past the lies we've been telling ourselves for so long that we've   
   >> come to half believe them   
   >   
   > If you half believe everyone gets it, since everyone is it,   
   > then you might be half way to not presuming others don't.   
   >   
   > If you see how, since everyone is it,   
   > then, as they get involved in all the bad news, immerse   
   > themselves in the media, and wallow in the yuck, it's all good,   
   > perhaps you will not intend as you do intend   
   > to say what you say as you say it.   
      
   If you say so. Through-the-Looking-Glass logic was never my strong point.   
   It's possible to have It, and not know it. It's also possible to   
   continue to think that you can find it in a 3000 year old book, when the   
   only place it can be found is in a living person - you.   
      
   And it's possible to think you can light up a dark room by taking a   
   photograph of a chandelier out of your wallet and waving it around.   
   Not sane. Not sensible. But definitely possible. As a thought   
   experiment. Try it in real life & you're likely to bang into things.   
      
   It's also possible to get a bit ruffled if someone points out that your   
   illumination strategy is neither sane nor sensible.   
   If that happens, the best thing two dew is lode up your plunder bus with   
   as many irreverent punnets and homonyms as you can scrape together, and   
   fire it off in all dire erections. Something is sure to seem to make sense.   
      
   >   
   >>> Just as Tang might say what all spiritual masters all say,   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)