XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 8/10/2016 2:12 AM, noname wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm  wrote:   
   >> On 7/10/2016 12:40 PM, {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>>> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> One might wonder why such a true self would post here,   
   >>>>> if all true selves are perfect, unsulliable, full of light, free, etc.   
   >>>>> if there would be any point, on earth, or elsewhere.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You misunderstand me.   
   >>>   
   >>> I tend to misunderstand most everyone in ways.   
   >>>   
   >>>> I'm not pretending to be any of those things.   
   >>>   
   >>> I wonder at times about Tang, pretending not to be   
   >>> what he claims that is he isn't in his disclaimers.   
   >>>   
   >>> Perhaps you are both the same. And everything is the same.   
   >>> Or similar if not the same. In some different ways.   
   >>   
   >> You love to hide in a mist of word-play and puns. Sometimes it works,   
   >> mostly it doesn't.   
   >> If we're to understand each other, let's speak clearly and simply.   
   >> As Noah said, very wisely I thought "Post humble words, quiet words,   
   >> without intent."   
   >>   
   >> And let Tang speak for himself. He's not being attacked, so he doesn't   
   >> need defending.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>> What i call "the true self" is not a vesture, or set of ceremonial   
   >>>> robes, for the ego to strut around in.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The way some people pretend to be Taoists, or Zennists, or polymath   
   >>>> scholars.   
   >>>   
   >>> Perhaps they are not pretending.   
   >>> Maybe their true selves are expressing themselves.   
   >>>   
   >>> But, one sees them thru a filter.   
   >>> A mirror of sorts. Maybe.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It's not a description of an ideal person, or a saint or a sage.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's a Presence to be enjoyed, wondered at, delighted in.   
   >>>> The Presence in the Present.   
   >>>   
   >>> Some true selves play for keeps. Very serious. Involved. Totally.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It doesn't act.   
   >>>   
   >>> Then it can't play.   
   >>   
   >> Like a cool lake on a hot day, it invites us to play in it. Or as a   
   >> breeze invites a child to launch a kite.   
   >>   
   >>> Unless, if it does, wu-wei.   
   >>>   
   >>>> It doesn't go anywhere. It's the still point of the   
   >>>> turning world.It can be heard, seen, tasted, felt.   
   >>>> It's in every human being.   
   >>>   
   >>> Then it's different from every human being.   
   >>> Being different, no one is one's true self.   
   >>   
   >> It is different from everything you might think or imagine. Definitions   
   >> fall off it like water from a duck's back.   
   >> But your logic is false. Being unique, everyone is one's true self -   
   >> unless one is projecting a false image and calling it "Me"   
   >>   
   >> That's why the Master holds up a mirror for us to look into - so we can   
   >> see past the lies we've been telling ourselves for so long that we've   
   >> come to half believe them   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Just as Tang might say what all spiritual masters all say,   
   >>> so you may say what is in every human being.   
   >>>   
   >>> Not having met every human being, I would presume   
   >>> that you have not met them all either,   
   >>   
   >> Not having seen every lake, pond, mirror, diamond, piece of glass on the   
   >> planet - am I therefore wrong in saying that I know the same sun   
   >> reflects off all of them?   
   >>   
   >>  just as Tang has not   
   >>> met every spiritual master and yet, eclectics and syncretists   
   >>> might all be said to be the same in various ways.   
   >>>   
   >>> They might see Taoism as being the same as all other systems.   
   >>> Or, if they see differences, those differences are ignored   
   >>> as if they made no difference, to every human being.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've heard Tao is in all things.   
   >>> And I've heard of the center to be held fast to.   
   >>> I've heard of emptiness, that is the usefulness of uselessness.   
   >>   
   >> You've heard a lot. What do you *know*?   
   >> As in "What have you actually experienced?" Hearsay isn't good enough.   
   >> It doesn't light up ANYTHING.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Zhenren may enter a picture.   
   >>> Along with Wuji. In a Taoist paradigm.   
   >>>   
   >>>> To know it is to know that all histories, dharmas, scriptures, dogmas,   
   >>>> rituals, intellectual arguments about the nature of reality, are   
   >>>> irrelevant. They all try to build bridges between the past and the   
   >>>> future. The true self exists only in the present.   
   >>>   
   >>> Some say Tao is God, and they know it   
   >>   
   >> Let's leave "some" out of it. They're not taking part in this   
   >> conversation. What do YOU know?   
   >>   
   >>> in the same way you know all histories, dharmas, scriptures, dogmas,   
   >>> rituals, intellectual arguments about the nature of reality, are   
   >>> irrelevant. They try to build bridges between all systems   
   >>> of thought and know how their true self is the same   
   >>> as every other true self.   
   >>>   
   >>> Every body has a center   
   >>> of gravity. But it isn't serious. Every one has   
   >>> a center of balance, which one might lose at times.   
   >>   
   >> One might drift off the centre of balance, certainly - but the centre   
   >> always remains, exactly where it was. The trick is to know how to get   
   >> back to it as quickly as possible.   
   >   
   > There's no hurry, no need to get back "as quickly as possible".  No   
   > stopwatch is necessary.  The world isn't going anyplace, when you're ready   
   > to meet it as you truly are, that's the time.  Measuring time is simply not   
   > useful, once you've measured time you have a number, not the time you've   
   > wasted time measuring in order to get a number you can point at to convince   
   > yourself you know what's going on.   
   >   
   > What I have observed is that when you reside in harmony with Tao, time   
   > adjusts itself to your needs.  For example if it is winter and the   
   > generator is broken and must be repaired, it's easy to get all frantic and   
   > screw things up worse than they were to begin with.  "Ohmygawd if this   
   > doesn't get fixed we're all gonna die" might actually be a correct   
   > perception, but if you get caught up in it, you'd probably be better off   
   > taking a nap in the cold before you start working on the manifestation of   
   > the problem.  Because that's all it is, the non-working generator isn't the   
   > problem, it's only a manifestation of the problem, a symptom.  Until you   
   > see through the manifestation to the problem that is manifesting, you're   
   > going through the motions without making any real change; the problem, the   
   > real problem, the root of the malfunction, is not mechanical.  On the other   
   > hand, if you simply work the wrenches, falling into harmony as you go, that   
   > keeps your fake-self, the exterior-self that others can see, the work keeps   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)