XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: wudao@wuji.net   
      
   Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   > {:-]))) wrote:   
   >> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>>> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> We all know that Tang is a Realized Master of Mental Culture, as we all   
   >>>>> know you are a Taoist Sage.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I don't know much of what Tang is.   
   >>>> He disclaims being a lot of things.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I am not a Taoist Sage.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I often write about what I see in terms of Taoism.   
   >>>> Seeing as how this is a Taoist newsgroup.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I know Tang likes to crosspost messages.   
   >>>> And this one is no exception. I don't know if you are here,   
   >>>> where I am at, in a Taoist newsgroup, or in absfg.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> If you would like to talk about Taoism, that might be on-topic.   
   >>>> If you want to talk about joy and happiness, that's fine.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> At the feast, if you recall any of the six TTCs you read,   
   >>>> how would you describe Lao Tzu?   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> I would describe him as dead.   
   >>   
   >> Do you mean he was dead to the world, in his own Way?   
   >   
   >Nope! I mean he *is* dead. As in defunct. An ex-person. No longer with   
   >us. In the grave. Unable to look us in the eye.   
      
   Okay. So you presume he existed.   
   There is some evidence for that.   
      
   Bill Porter (Red Pine) has a picture of a grave-stone   
   that supposedly is where a Lao Tzu's mother is buried   
   in the back of his rendition of his, "Taoteching" version.   
      
   China's ancient historians were perhaps not as confident.   
      
   >>> Unfortunately, living Knowledge (i.e. how to sync with the Tao of right   
   >>> now) can only be transmitted by a living Master to a living student.   
   >>   
   >> That's too bad for you then. Unless you have one around at all times.   
   >   
   >If the Master was one who handed out apples & peaches, then maybe he   
   >would have to be around all the time.   
      
   Okay. Then Lao Tzu, though dead and not around, in the flesh,   
   might still be around all the time, in a non-physical Way.   
      
   >But he doesn't. He hands me an apple tree & a peach tree, teaches me how   
   >to spade them in & water them. Then with a little patience, I eat apples   
   >& peaches whenever I feel like it.   
      
   If your, so-called, living Master dies, are you then up shit creek?   
      
   Does he need to remain alive at all times, physically?   
      
   If he died before you were born, would it have been impossible,   
   for you, to have been able to eat apples and peaches?   
      
   Even if that is so, for you, why do you presume   
   that is the case for everyone else?   
      
   Can't you see that as a generalization   
   that might not be true?   
      
   Or do you simply choose to ignore the possibility?   
      
   - thanks   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)