XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: wudao@wuji.net   
      
   Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   > {:-]))) asked about a living Master:   
   >   
   >> Some living Master who lives within your heart?   
   >> Like Jesus?   
   >   
   >Jesus is dead too. He never came back.   
      
   Okay. So, if your living Master dies, that's it. She's done.   
      
   No one can ever again get anything out of her words.   
   Because, it doesn't work that way. For anyone. Ever.   
      
   What your living Master said, to you, and did, for you,   
   was for you, and for you alone. Period. End of story.   
      
   If she wrote a book, it would suck.   
   Even if you read it, it wouldn't do anything for you.   
      
   And if anyone else read it, it would do nothing at all.   
      
   So, forget about writing. Don't bother.   
   Don't make up stories, in writing, to say anything.   
      
   It doesn't work that way.   
   Is that what you're writing about?   
      
   The futility of you writing about anything?   
      
   >When he was alive, he had the power to show people what he called "The   
   >Kingdom of Heaven" which was within them.   
      
   And, since he's dead, those words are meaningless. Right?   
   They're just drivel. Dead words from a dead man.   
      
   >He could do that because he was a living human being who had a special   
   >gift - the gift of being able to transmit Knowledge of the self.   
      
   And now, those words don't mean anything. To anyone.   
      
   Those words can't mean anything. Because Jesus died.   
      
   Funny thing though, if you read the story, his followers   
   did not get the message until after he returned.   
      
   That's the Christian story.   
      
   You seem to take part of it as true, and dismiss the rest,   
   of the story, as you perhaps read what you read in   
   to and out of, the Christian story.   
      
      
   In aother story, in your story about stories,   
   because Lao Tzu died, assuming he even existed, his words   
   can't impart any realizations, meanings, insights, nothing.   
      
   Words can't do it.   
   Not if they were written by someone who died.   
   Or written after someone died.   
      
   That seems to be your thesis.   
   Based on some assumptions and presumptions you carry.   
   That's my impression of your words.   
      
   >After he died they decided he was a God, and shifted Heaven to somewhere   
   >up above the clouds, where no-one could get at it.   
      
   If that's your interpretation, then that's how you see it.   
      
   But that's not how everyone else sees what was written   
   about Jesus. Some see Heaven as being within them.   
      
   Just as you said Jesus said. In your story. Above.   
      
   It's easy for some people to see it.   
   It doesn't matter if Jesus never even existed.   
      
   Words can be alive, now, in the present.   
      
   It doesn't matter when they were written down,   
   nor if they are found in a science-fiction book,   
   spoken by imaginary characters.   
      
   Can't you see that?   
      
   Or do you choose to ignore that?   
      
   Maybe you subscribe to Tang's view, that all words   
   on a screen are mere words and don't mean anything.   
      
   They can't evoke any emotion, realization, insight   
   and are meaningless and all the same and all point   
   to the same emptiness, at the center, within.   
      
   Oar sum Ting as th'at.   
      
   >> Are you a living Master?   
   >No   
   >> And you are here to dispense living Knowledge?   
   >> Right now? Here?   
   >No   
   >>   
   >> Are you looking for living students?   
   >No   
   >>   
   >> Are you here to recruit for someone?   
   >No. If I was, I'd have given you the name of a master 5 years ago - &   
   >probably a form to fill in, & the address of her website.   
   >   
   >I'm here to tell you that there's something better than memorising,   
   >mish-mashing & regurgitating mis-translated ancient "Sacred Texts"   
      
   You have beer?   
      
   >The most sacred text in existence is the human heart. You have that.   
      
   Okay.   
      
   >Get   
   >in touch with that, and you'll find that it is magical, profound,   
   >exciting, luminous & full of fun.   
      
   You appear to me to be saying that, in your opinion,   
   since I like to write about and think about Taoism,   
   in a Usenet Newsgroup about Taoism, that,   
   therefore, I am not in touch with my own heart.   
      
   Is that what you're saying?   
      
   And you, know, this to be true,   
   because I use a phew puns in mine sown waze?   
      
   Ore t'hat enjoying an old made-up fictional category,   
   created by China's ancient historians, is wrong somehow?   
      
   If some Trekkie, who likes Star Trek, in a group about Star Trek   
   said, Live long and prosper, would you think she was not   
   in touch with her own heart because of that?   
      
   Shirley you jest.   
      
   >All that's required is a little humility - a little awareness that maybe   
   >there is something still to learn. It's never too late.   
      
   I'm a knowledge junkie, basically.   
      
   I enjoy old and new stuff. History, philosophy, religion, life.   
   Not always. As they say, dao ke dao fei chang dao.   
      
   You seem to me to be a bit stuffy in ways.   
   As if you have an axe to grind.   
      
   >I'm here because it's fun to be here - for a while.   
      
   I like to remember Taoism, at times, here.   
   Seeing as how it's a Taoist newsgroup.   
      
   Maybe you like to ignore that.   
   Ore prehaps you can't help yourself.   
   Being unrefined, or too refined, to matter.   
      
   Why would you go to a Star Trek group and say Spock is dead?   
      
   In an alternate time-line, Spock is alive. Or was.   
      
   Now, Spock is dead.   
      
   Alas, poor Spock, I knew him well.   
      
   Well, but there is another Spock, now, alive.   
      
   Do you like Star Trek?   
   Since you don't seem to approve of Taoism.   
      
   - live long, and prosper   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)