XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 11/10/2016 2:02 AM, {:-]))) wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>>> {:-]))) wrote:   
   >>>>> Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> We all know that Tang is a Realized Master of Mental Culture, as we all   
   >>>>>> know you are a Taoist Sage.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I don't know much of what Tang is.   
   >>>>> He disclaims being a lot of things.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I am not a Taoist Sage.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I often write about what I see in terms of Taoism.   
   >>>>> Seeing as how this is a Taoist newsgroup.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I know Tang likes to crosspost messages.   
   >>>>> And this one is no exception. I don't know if you are here,   
   >>>>> where I am at, in a Taoist newsgroup, or in absfg.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If you would like to talk about Taoism, that might be on-topic.   
   >>>>> If you want to talk about joy and happiness, that's fine.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> At the feast, if you recall any of the six TTCs you read,   
   >>>>> how would you describe Lao Tzu?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I would describe him as dead.   
   >>>   
   >>> Do you mean he was dead to the world, in his own Way?   
   >>   
   >> Nope! I mean he *is* dead. As in defunct. An ex-person. No longer with   
   >> us. In the grave. Unable to look us in the eye.   
   >   
   > Okay. So you presume he existed.   
   > There is some evidence for that.   
   >   
   > Bill Porter (Red Pine) has a picture of a grave-stone   
   > that supposedly is where a Lao Tzu's mother is buried   
   > in the back of his rendition of his, "Taoteching" version.   
   >   
   > China's ancient historians were perhaps not as confident.   
   >   
   >>>> Unfortunately, living Knowledge (i.e. how to sync with the Tao of right   
   >>>> now) can only be transmitted by a living Master to a living student.   
   >>>   
   >>> That's too bad for you then. Unless you have one around at all times.   
   >>   
   >> If the Master was one who handed out apples & peaches, then maybe he   
   >> would have to be around all the time.   
   >   
   > Okay. Then Lao Tzu, though dead and not around, in the flesh,   
   > might still be around all the time, in a non-physical Way.   
   >   
   >> But he doesn't. He hands me an apple tree & a peach tree, teaches me how   
   >> to spade them in & water them. Then with a little patience, I eat apples   
   >> & peaches whenever I feel like it.   
   >   
   > If your, so-called, living Master dies, are you then up shit creek?   
      
   Of course not. What the Master has given me, is the ability to access a   
   part of me that I've always had. How could his death take that away from me?   
      
   >   
   > Does he need to remain alive at all times, physically?   
      
   I'm sure there is always at least one Master alive on the planet. It   
   would be a cruel world if we were each given a gift at birth, with no   
   means of unwrapping it.   
      
   >   
   > If he died before you were born, would it have been impossible,   
   > for you, to have been able to eat apples and peaches?   
      
   I've no idea. I'm more interested in real situations than hypothetical   
   ones. I happen to have been alive at the same time as a real Master.   
   Meeting him introduced the 'Wow!' factor into what was already a very   
   interesting life.   
      
   >   
   > Even if that is so, for you, why do you presume   
   > that is the case for everyone else?   
      
   I don't presume, I know. To know how I know that what I know isn't   
   presumptuous, you would have to know it for yourself.   
      
   >   
   > Can't you see that as a generalization   
   > that might not be true?   
      
   As I've tried to explain, there's a difference between a generalisation   
   (a logical construct, an extrapolation) and a fact.   
   I've learnt a fact about human nature. It's true for all humans.   
      
   >   
   > Or do you simply choose to ignore the possibility?   
      
   I understand that it's very, very important for you to continue to   
   believe that what I've been pointing to has absolutely no relevance to   
   you or your life.   
   In other words, you need to believe that I'm aberrant, insane,   
   up-the-wall, deluded. A one-off. That I erroneously believe that what   
   I've experienced can be experienced by anybody.   
      
   Well, pile up the sand bags - the waters are rising.   
      
   >   
   > - thanks   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)