XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: nottony.nokingsbury@ngmail.com   
      
   On 12/10/2016 12:10 AM, {:-]))) wrote:   
   > Ummmmmmm wrote:   
   >> {:-]))) had enquired:   
   >>   
   >>> If your, so-called, living Master dies, are you then up shit creek?   
   >>   
   >> Of course not. What the Master has given me, is the ability to access a   
   >> part of me that I've always had. How could his death take that away from me?   
   >   
   > If your living Master wrote a book, but is now dead, hypothetically,   
   > would you be able to get anything out of that book?   
   > Seeing as how you have the ability to access   
   > a part of you that you always had.   
      
   If he writes a book, and if he dies, I'll read it & see if I get   
   anything out of it. What's the point of proposing hypothetical answers   
   to hypothetical questions? I'm into experiencing the truth, not   
   theorising about it.   
      
   >   
   >>> Does he need to remain alive at all times, physically?   
   >>   
   >> I'm sure there is always at least one Master alive on the planet. It   
   >> would be a cruel world if we were each given a gift at birth, with no   
   >> means of unwrapping it.   
   >   
   > What if you lived to be a thousand years old, hypothetically,   
   > and your living Master had given you the ability to access a   
   > part of you that you have always had, and she, or he,   
   > wrote a book, a thousand years ago, and you   
   > were able to get, what you always had,   
   > out of that book, would it be dead?   
   > To you? For you? All gone?   
      
   When I'm a thousand years old, I'll let you know.   
   But if you and I are going to be around in a thousand years time, it   
   seems likely that the Master will be too, so the question won't arise.   
   >   
   > Would the book, in other words, remain alive, to you?   
   >   
   > Or is such a figure of speech anathema?   
   >   
   > You seemed to me to be saying all books written by   
   > living Masters, long since dead, contain nothing.   
      
   They are fossilized footprints in rock strata. They point to the fact   
   that way back then there may have been mammals that gave milk, and ducks   
   that could be roasted. Interesting, in their own way.   
   But if you're hungry & thirsty - you can't eat or drink a fossil.   
      
   > Don't look at them. Stay away from them.   
   > Danger. Danger. Danger.   
      
   Look at them as much as you like. The only danger is that you will try   
   to extract nourishment from them. You'll slowly starve to death.   
      
   >   
   > Since your living Master wrote the words, in the book,   
   > and she, or he, gave you the ability to access a part   
   > of you that you've always had, could you see anything   
   > in the book? Find anything, in the book? She/he wrote?   
   >   
   > Hypothetically speaking.   
   >   
   > It seems as if, even though you have accessed a part of you   
   > that you've always had, you can't see it in a book.   
      
   No part of me is in a book. To see it I have to look within me. All the   
   books are outside of me.   
      
   >   
   > Or, you can.         But other's can't.   
   >   
   > Or, if you are looking for enlightenment, in a book,   
   > it won't work, because, even though it's in everyone,   
   > and it's all around, everywhere, it isn't in a book.   
   >   
   > Can you see the logical problem there?   
      
   You've invented the logical problem.   
   I'm talking about a living light. A light that shines within living   
   beings. A book isn't a living being. It can't walk or sing or smile or   
   make love. A book can contain ideas, and so can your mind - that's where   
   the confusion arises. But truth isn't an idea, it's an experience. Books   
   can't feel. They don't experience anything.   
      
   A book can't tell you if you're understanding it right, or if it's been   
   translated correctly. But if a Master speaks to you, he can know if   
   you're understanding him or not, and correct you if necessary.   
   That's why the experience of the living light has to be transmitted to a   
   living student by a real live walking-talking LivingMaster.   
      
   >   
   > What is in the books, since it's all the same thing,   
   > is able to shine. As the words form inside you.   
   > Inside that place you've always had.   
   > As the Sun reflects off the dew.   
   > It's the same light.   
   > Always.   
   >   
   > Yet you may insist, even if some other living Master   
   > had given some other person the ability to see   
   > what is inside of them, or in a book, it isn't possible.   
   >   
   > No one can ever see anything pertaining to Tao,   
   > enlightenment, satori or whatever word is used,   
   > in a book, written by a living Master, long ago.   
   >   
   > Is that what you're saying?   
      
   You can see thousands of things pertaining to Tao in the Taoist texts.   
   That's why they're Taoist texts.   
   The only thing you can't get from them is the actual experience of what   
   they were talking about.   
   It's the experience that makes the words come alive.   
      
   You can read a cookbook for hours - but if you're hungry, sooner or   
   later you'll have to drop the book and find some food. The idea of   
   enlightenment is one thing - you can certainly get that from any number   
   of books. Actual enlightenment is something else. You won't find it in a   
   book.   
      
   >   
   > Don't discuss books?   
   > This isn't some book of the Tao club?   
   > Even though it's a Taoist newsgroup?   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)