XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: wudao@wuji.net   
      
   Tang had been presenting lots and lots of material from Jen:   
      
   >> if the basic consciousness didn't have that notion of 'i love' it wouldn't   
   >> keep coming back for more lifetime after lifetime in countless forms   
   >> if it really did indeed judge its life experiences to be 'suffering'.   
      
   Being totally involved can be what it takes   
   to be totally evolved if not totally uninvolved.   
      
   >> you may not think that suffering is enjoyable and you may keep   
   >> seeking out ways and means to end this suffering, but consciousness   
   >> itself is having a grand old time no matter what is occurring.   
      
   Sat Chit Ananda is a Hindu paradigm, and it works.   
   It wells enough of its wells to quench many a thirst.   
      
   >>  this   
   >> seemingly divisional aspect of perception shows decidedly that 'you'   
   >> and the consciousness are indeed on differing wavelengths in that   
   >> what you consider suffering is what it considers a 'good time'.>>   
      
   The Self is able to play all parts, see out of all eyes, etc.   
      
   With Taoism, as a different paradigm, there is no Self.   
   No Brahman of any personal sort of Being who is experiencing.   
      
   Suffering and not-suffering, joy and no-joy, are mutual.   
      
   It is not necessarily the case, with Taoism, as I see the views   
   presented in so-called Taoist texts, that everything is fun, fun, fun   
   until daddy took the T-bird away and even then it was too.   
      
   Not quite, if even at all.   
      
   Among paradigms, some see them as all the same, in depth.   
      
   In the valley of the shadows, in death, some of them do part.   
      
   It's possible that the Chinese world-view and the Indian are   
   not exactly congruent in various aspects and experiences.   
      
   When someone finds Tao, follows Tao, is in harmony with Tao,   
   perhaps there is the Joy of the Zone, or maybe it is simply   
   going for a swim. Catching bugs. Or doing nothing.   
      
   Beyond, for a good time, call one eight hundred Self,   
   there could be said to be neither good nor bad.   
      
   And may be why Lao Tzu was not thrilled at the feast.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)