XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: tanghuyen@gmail.com   
      
   On 10/26/2016 8:17 PM, Tang Huyen wrote:   
      
   > If one tests others on the basis (on the ground) of one's   
   > norms and standards, which may or may not be shared   
   > by those to whom one directs one's testing, then one   
   > obviously stands one's ground in flinging the tests at   
   > them. If one merely takes the norms and standards as   
   > proclaimed in no self-stated, uncertain terms and   
   > without disclaimers by some others and applies them   
   > back to their authors, one does not stand one's ground   
   > in criticising them, but stands their ground in criticising   
   > them, in closed circle, in their own freely and voluntarily   
   > declaimed norms and standards.   
      
   Sorry, "no" got misplaced. It should have been:   
      
   "If one merely takes the norms and standards as   
   proclaimed in self-stated, no uncertain terms and   
   without disclaimers by some others and applies   
   them back to their authors ... "   
      
   This way, one refrains from imposing oneself and   
   one's norms and standards (however lofty or lowly)   
   on others, but let them take responsibility for their   
   declarations, as they know their English, unlike me,   
   who still write in clumsy and unidiomatic English. If   
   they misspeak, as I do above, they can always   
   correct what they say, or retract it, or at least walk   
   it back, but none of those occurs, and they let their   
   words stand, like a promontory inviting the waves.   
   So they should not be nonplussed when others   
   take their words and apply them back to them.   
      
   Everybody can also take my words and apply them   
   back to me. Fair is fair. Please excoriate me for my   
   hypocrisy, which I don't see. The more the merrier,   
   and I shall thank you for it. Please don't give me a   
   free pass.   
      
   I take it to be a service that we render each other,   
   in trying to make each other aware of how we live up   
   to our words, or not. In general, I hope that we try to   
   make each other see how others see us, to help us   
   break out from our respective cocoon.   
      
   Tang Huyen   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)