XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: julianlzb87@gmail.com   
      
   On 06/11/2016 01:15, noname wrote:   
   > liaM  wrote:   
   >> On 11/5/2016 10:39 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>> On 05/11/2016 22:25, dagnabit wrote:   
   >>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:nvlhf9$9fu$1@dont-email.me...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> On 11/5/2016 3:31 AM, noname wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You listed a bunch of statements.  Apparently these are words that   
   >>>>> Trump   
   >>>>>> has spoken, but I don't know that to be a fact.  I've seen a lot of   
   >>>>>> fact-checking sites.  American media has run fact-checking up as a   
   >>>>> new > flag   
   >>>>>> for voters to rally under.  Is your list above something you've   
   >>>>>> collected... no, that doesn't matter really, it just doesn't matter.   
   >>>>>> Tickey-mark buyers make up their lists and buy what their facts   
   >>>>> indicate > to   
   >>>>>> be the most widely approved product.  The tikey-mark buyers probably   
   >>>>>> bought   
   >>>>>> lots of Samsung devices before they started exhibiting their battery   
   >>>>>> defects.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I don't collect facts.  The bad thing about collecting facts is that   
   >>>>> you   
   >>>>>> have to validate them before entering them in your fact collection.   
   >>>>> And   
   >>>>>> then you have to wait for more facts to turn up and contradict   
   >>>>> them.  A   
   >>>>>> fellow can end up as a 24x7 fact hoarder if he isn't careful.  And   
   >>>>> then > the   
   >>>>>> fact hoarder can end up sitting and wondering "how did that happen"   
   >>>>> if > all   
   >>>>>> this facts were in fact true, because if they were all true   
   >>>>> something > else   
   >>>>>> should've happened.  It's a lot more reliable not to depend on   
   >>>>> facts, or   
   >>>>>> laws for that matter.  It's the wording that makes facts slippery   
   >>>>> and > laws   
   >>>>>> filled with loopholes.  Facts are content, details of context, they   
   >>>>>> change   
   >>>>>> with the wind as the world shows you that whatever you knew it was,   
   >>>>> it > was   
   >>>>>> not.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Does a statement state the actual facts, or does it present a view   
   >>>>> of > the   
   >>>>>> facts that makes them look happy or sad?  Is there a difference   
   >>>>> between > the   
   >>>>>> letter of the law and the spirit of the law?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I don't remember everything Trump has said, and I don't remember any   
   >>>>>> specific examples where he has been hoist by his own honesty, maybe   
   >>>>> the   
   >>>>>> locker-room-talk thing where he said yeah, he made those words,   
   >>>>> maybe > not.   
   >>>>>> One thing I know for sure is that I don't have access to all the   
   >>>>> facts, > or   
   >>>>>> even to enough of the facts to work with in a reasonable way.   
   >>>>> Knowing > one   
   >>>>>> is bereft of factual information, whatever can one do, oh my.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> One can sometimes listen in a way that hears meanings instead of   
   >>>>> words.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> When I listen to Trump what I hear is this bombastic practical guy >   
   >>>>> saying   
   >>>>>> listen folks, there are problems here to be solved, and the >   
   >>>>> establishment   
   >>>>>> has not been solving them, let's get the work done for a change   
   >>>>> before > it's   
   >>>>>> too late.  I think that's true, there are problems, and the >   
   >>>>> establishment   
   >>>>>> has not been solving them, it's been exacerbating them.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> When I listen to Hilary what I hear is a pompous self-righteous   
   >>>>> failure   
   >>>>>> smugly decrying anything other than the approach the establishment   
   >>>>> has > been   
   >>>>>> proving not to work for decades.  I hear how She knows better than >   
   >>>>> anybody   
   >>>>>> how true equality for the LGBT group is important (and they can   
   >>>>> never be   
   >>>>>> truly equal because they are not equal, they are different from   
   >>>>> others > and   
   >>>>>> from each other just like the rest of us are different from each   
   >>>>> other) > and   
   >>>>>> how the US has to stand by its treaties unaltered forever and how   
   >>>>> the US   
   >>>>>> has to defend other countries and how the US Government has to make   
   >>>>>> things   
   >>>>>> nice for the poor so they can continue to live in poverty.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Some people make decisions based on "facts" and lists of tickey-marks,   
   >>>>>> others don't make decisions the same way. Do what you need to do.  I   
   >>>>>> need   
   >>>>>> to stick by my opinion that popular opinion has damn little to do with   
   >>>>>> what's right.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Wow.   
   >>>>> I've come across true-believers before with the attitude, "I have made   
   >>>>> up my mind, don't confuse me with facts", but i have never come across   
   >>>>> someone who actually defends that attitude, much less so eloquently.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Anyway, when i listen to Trump, what i hear is this narcissistic   
   >>>>> sociopath who says, "I want the ultimate ego-boost, the US presidency.   
   >>>>> I will say anything, anything at all, true or not, actually mostly   
   >>>>> lies, that you want to hear me say so you will vote for me. I have no   
   >>>>> idea how to implement them, and actually have no intention whatsoever   
   >>>>> to do any of those things, I only say that stuff because you want to   
   >>>>> hear me say it. Don't look at "facts" that show that I have never,   
   >>>>> ever done anything for others unless that benefits me directly, in   
   >>>>> fact, I have shafted pretty much everyone I ever dealt with. I don't   
   >>>>> give a shit what you want me to do for you, or for the country; I just   
   >>>>> say all that stuff so I will get your vote."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> so all of a sudden, after how many years of dishonest politicians, we   
   >>>> now expect trump to be the first honest one? strange how political   
   >>>> expectations have become so unrealistic.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> politics is really just an odd form of advertising which has to be   
   >>>> dishonest to work because there is no other model to choose from.   
   >>>> same with politicians. if anyone running for office outlined exactly   
   >>>> what they will do if elected, or what the true state of affairs currently   
   >>>> was, they'd never get elected.   
   >>>   
   >>> How could they outline exactly what they would do if they were elected   
   >>> without knowing exactly what the future hold.. which they don't.   
   >>>   
   >>> As you imply(?) Has there ever been a politician who has said they would   
   >>> do this or that to get elected and then after being elected done exactly   
   >>> that this or that?   
   >>>   
   >>> Even if they weren't dishonest they can't escape the fundamental   
   >>> ground of all being... ignorance.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Amen :)   
   >>   
   >>   
   >   
   > The other thing you do when you "outline a plan" is to spell out the rules   
   > through which your opponents can cheat.  A plan is almost as bad as a   
   > treaty.  Good trades are cash, not promises.  Obligations are the kiss of   
      
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