XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   Julian  wrote:   
   > On 06/11/2016 08:21, noname wrote:   
   >> Julian  wrote:   
   >>> On 06/11/2016 01:15, noname wrote:   
   >>>> liaM  wrote:   
   >>>>> On 11/5/2016 10:39 PM, Julian wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 05/11/2016 22:25, dagnabit wrote:   
   >>>>>>> "Nobody in Particular"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>>> news:nvlhf9$9fu$1@dont-email.me...   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 11/5/2016 3:31 AM, noname wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You listed a bunch of statements.  Apparently these are words that   
   >>>>>>>> Trump   
   >>>>>>>>> has spoken, but I don't know that to be a fact.  I've seen a lot of   
   >>>>>>>>> fact-checking sites.  American media has run fact-checking up as a   
   >>>>>>>> new > flag   
   >>>>>>>>> for voters to rally under.  Is your list above something you've   
   >>>>>>>>> collected... no, that doesn't matter really, it just doesn't matter.   
   >>>>>>>>> Tickey-mark buyers make up their lists and buy what their facts   
   >>>>>>>> indicate > to   
   >>>>>>>>> be the most widely approved product.  The tikey-mark buyers probably   
   >>>>>>>>> bought   
   >>>>>>>>> lots of Samsung devices before they started exhibiting their battery   
   >>>>>>>>> defects.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> I don't collect facts.  The bad thing about collecting facts is that   
   >>>>>>>> you   
   >>>>>>>>> have to validate them before entering them in your fact collection.   
   >>>>>>>> And   
   >>>>>>>>> then you have to wait for more facts to turn up and contradict   
   >>>>>>>> them.  A   
   >>>>>>>>> fellow can end up as a 24x7 fact hoarder if he isn't careful.  And   
   >>>>>>>> then > the   
   >>>>>>>>> fact hoarder can end up sitting and wondering "how did that happen"   
   >>>>>>>> if > all   
   >>>>>>>>> this facts were in fact true, because if they were all true   
   >>>>>>>> something > else   
   >>>>>>>>> should've happened.  It's a lot more reliable not to depend on   
   >>>>>>>> facts, or   
   >>>>>>>>> laws for that matter.  It's the wording that makes facts slippery   
   >>>>>>>> and > laws   
   >>>>>>>>> filled with loopholes.  Facts are content, details of context, they   
   >>>>>>>>> change   
   >>>>>>>>> with the wind as the world shows you that whatever you knew it was,   
   >>>>>>>> it > was   
   >>>>>>>>> not.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Does a statement state the actual facts, or does it present a view   
   >>>>>>>> of > the   
   >>>>>>>>> facts that makes them look happy or sad?  Is there a difference   
   >>>>>>>> between > the   
   >>>>>>>>> letter of the law and the spirit of the law?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> I don't remember everything Trump has said, and I don't remember any   
   >>>>>>>>> specific examples where he has been hoist by his own honesty, maybe   
   >>>>>>>> the   
   >>>>>>>>> locker-room-talk thing where he said yeah, he made those words,   
   >>>>>>>> maybe > not.   
   >>>>>>>>> One thing I know for sure is that I don't have access to all the   
   >>>>>>>> facts, > or   
   >>>>>>>>> even to enough of the facts to work with in a reasonable way.   
   >>>>>>>> Knowing > one   
   >>>>>>>>> is bereft of factual information, whatever can one do, oh my.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> One can sometimes listen in a way that hears meanings instead of   
   >>>>>>>> words.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> When I listen to Trump what I hear is this bombastic practical guy >   
   >>>>>>>> saying   
   >>>>>>>>> listen folks, there are problems here to be solved, and the >   
   >>>>>>>> establishment   
   >>>>>>>>> has not been solving them, let's get the work done for a change   
   >>>>>>>> before > it's   
   >>>>>>>>> too late.  I think that's true, there are problems, and the >   
   >>>>>>>> establishment   
   >>>>>>>>> has not been solving them, it's been exacerbating them.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> When I listen to Hilary what I hear is a pompous self-righteous   
   >>>>>>>> failure   
   >>>>>>>>> smugly decrying anything other than the approach the establishment   
   >>>>>>>> has > been   
   >>>>>>>>> proving not to work for decades.  I hear how She knows better than >   
   >>>>>>>> anybody   
   >>>>>>>>> how true equality for the LGBT group is important (and they can   
   >>>>>>>> never be   
   >>>>>>>>> truly equal because they are not equal, they are different from   
   >>>>>>>> others > and   
   >>>>>>>>> from each other just like the rest of us are different from each   
   >>>>>>>> other) > and   
   >>>>>>>>> how the US has to stand by its treaties unaltered forever and how   
   >>>>>>>> the US   
   >>>>>>>>> has to defend other countries and how the US Government has to make   
   >>>>>>>>> things   
   >>>>>>>>> nice for the poor so they can continue to live in poverty.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Some people make decisions based on "facts" and lists of   
   tickey-marks,   
   >>>>>>>>> others don't make decisions the same way. Do what you need to do.  I   
   >>>>>>>>> need   
   >>>>>>>>> to stick by my opinion that popular opinion has damn little to do   
   with   
   >>>>>>>>> what's right.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Wow.   
   >>>>>>>> I've come across true-believers before with the attitude, "I have made   
   >>>>>>>> up my mind, don't confuse me with facts", but i have never come across   
   >>>>>>>> someone who actually defends that attitude, much less so eloquently.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Anyway, when i listen to Trump, what i hear is this narcissistic   
   >>>>>>>> sociopath who says, "I want the ultimate ego-boost, the US presidency.   
   >>>>>>>> I will say anything, anything at all, true or not, actually mostly   
   >>>>>>>> lies, that you want to hear me say so you will vote for me. I have no   
   >>>>>>>> idea how to implement them, and actually have no intention whatsoever   
   >>>>>>>> to do any of those things, I only say that stuff because you want to   
   >>>>>>>> hear me say it. Don't look at "facts" that show that I have never,   
   >>>>>>>> ever done anything for others unless that benefits me directly, in   
   >>>>>>>> fact, I have shafted pretty much everyone I ever dealt with. I don't   
   >>>>>>>> give a shit what you want me to do for you, or for the country; I just   
   >>>>>>>> say all that stuff so I will get your vote."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> so all of a sudden, after how many years of dishonest politicians, we   
   >>>>>>> now expect trump to be the first honest one? strange how political   
   >>>>>>> expectations have become so unrealistic.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> politics is really just an odd form of advertising which has to be   
   >>>>>>> dishonest to work because there is no other model to choose from.   
   >>>>>>> same with politicians. if anyone running for office outlined exactly   
   >>>>>>> what they will do if elected, or what the true state of affairs   
   currently   
   >>>>>>> was, they'd never get elected.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> How could they outline exactly what they would do if they were elected   
   >>>>>> without knowing exactly what the future hold.. which they don't.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> As you imply(?) Has there ever been a politician who has said they would   
      
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