XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: tanghuyen@gmail.com   
      
   On 11/7/2016 4:15 PM, brian mitchell wrote:   
      
   > Which, of course, would also mean unlearning Taoism. Is it possible,   
   > in a practical living sense, to experience without any framework   
   > whatsoever? This would be Tang's "unestablished mind", but can one   
   > live in the fractious world that way, or must one lock oneself in an   
   > ivory tower for that?   
      
   As I have written lots of time, the regimen of   
   survival and the regimen of grace are unrelated.   
   If one is concerned with survival, grace won't   
   come. It comes when one does nothing,   
   including for survival. But when navigating the   
   world, some modicum of care is useful, even if   
   bypassable if one so wants. Survival may not be   
   assured. The Stoic sage is in a state of apatheia,   
   which combined insensitivity and unconcern,   
   though admiration for God's creation is still   
   active.   
      
   <> Jen.   
      
   It looks too idealistic, for the sage not to be   
   bothered about survival. Of course the sage is   
   still bound to physical and social laws, but   
   otherwise not bound by anything, including   
   social norms and standards. ZZ goes all out   
   making that point, perhaps with a large dose of   
   artistic license. But caricature is truer than   
   straight talk. (All the usual disclaimers ...)   
      
   Tang Huyen   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)