XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   brian mitchell  wrote:   
   > noname wrote:   
   >   
   >> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>> "{:-])))" wrote:   
   >   
   >>>> Taoism may suggest uncarving, unlearning, forgetting,   
   >>>> and returning to a still-point within a center of a center.   
   >>>   
   >>> Which, of course, would also mean unlearning Taoism. Is it possible,   
   >>> in a practical living sense, to experience without any framework   
   >>> whatsoever?   
   >>   
   >> Are you getting hooked on letters there?  Are we talking about   
   >> no-frame-whatsoever or no-frame-clung-to?   
   >   
   > A frame may be necessary for the purposes of exposition, but where can   
   > we live?   
   >   
      
   The framework of our lives within the manifestation is called our   
   circumstances.   
      
   One of the attributes of the sage, implied by what I read in TTC, is that   
   the sage acts the same regardless of circumstance.  In a beer-hall, sitting   
   on a lawn, behind a podium, in a shopping mall or a factory, the sage is   
   constant and in harmony with Tao.  Not-initiating much, responding to   
   everything, according to the inner nature of that sage and the flow of Tao.   
      
   The frame is necessary for life like a stage is necessary for a play, you   
   need a *place* where the play is staged.  The upper/heavenly/abstract realm   
   is unmanifest, there is no stage to walk on within the realm of   
   abstraction.   
      
   Look around you, this is it.  Tales of angels singing praises in Heaven   
   are, imo, remnants passed from mouth to mouth too many times to have   
   survived the trek.  What was it Jesus said, something about the kingdom of   
   heaven being all-around/close-at-hand, it's my opinion he was speaking   
   literally of the abstract realm from which the earthly/manifest/physical   
   universe arises in constant reinvention.   
      
   The dancing monk was dancing if his students recognized it as dancing,   
   maybe he wanted to find out who would smirk instead of doing the   
   silly-dance.  Maybe something else, I dunno.   
      
   >   
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   >   
   > (the space above reserved for noname's reply, should he choose to make   
   > one)   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)