XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: wudao@wuji.net   
      
   Tang wrote:   
   > brian mitchell wrote:   
   >   
   >> Which, of course, would also mean unlearning Taoism. Is it possible,   
   >> in a practical living sense, to experience without any framework   
   >> whatsoever? This would be Tang's "unestablished mind", but can one   
   >> live in the fractious world that way, or must one lock oneself in an   
   >> ivory tower for that?   
   >   
   >As I have written lots of time, the regimen of   
   >survival and the regimen of grace are unrelated.   
   >If one is concerned with survival, grace won't   
   >come. It comes when one does nothing,   
   >including for survival. But when navigating the   
   >world, some modicum of care is useful, even if   
   >bypassable if one so wants. Survival may not be   
   >assured. The Stoic sage is in a state of apatheia,   
   >which combined insensitivity and unconcern,   
   >though admiration for God's creation is still   
   >active.   
   >   
   ><language is one of fear, desire and survival   
   >addictions. the true self language doesn't   
   >concern itself with those things.>> Jen.   
   >   
   >It looks too idealistic, for the sage not to be   
   >bothered about survival. Of course the sage is   
   >still bound to physical and social laws, but   
   >otherwise not bound by anything, including   
   >social norms and standards. ZZ goes all out   
   >making that point, perhaps with a large dose of   
   >artistic license. But caricature is truer than   
   >straight talk. (All the usual disclaimers ...)   
      
   When asked about emotions or feelings by Huizi,   
   Zz said the Sage has them but does not allow them   
   to get into the heart-mind nor have any lasting affect.   
      
   Being unconcerned and uninvolved can be how to be   
   when in the form of being still and all perfect in all.   
      
   Taking such a poetry into motion can be a trick   
   that involves remembering to forget.   
      
   When one is sick, medicine may be sought.   
      
   Healthy people don't need a salve nor any grace.   
      
   Many people, when asked how they are, they say, fine.   
   They know their true selves without cognizing.   
   With no need to cognize there is no need to recognize.   
      
   Being fine tuned is how all things can be seen to be.   
   No matter how much off-key they appear to be.   
      
   In order to go up, one may need to teeter on a totter.   
   To shoot an arrow forward, one first pulls it backward.   
      
   Some people don't pay attention to various aspects.   
   They're too busy being involved and having a good time.   
      
   The word, attitude, is able to have many connotations.   
      
   - horizons vary   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)