XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   Wilson  wrote:   
   > On 11/7/2016 7:39 PM, Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>   
   >> As I have written lots of time, the regimen of   
   >> survival and the regimen of grace are unrelated.   
   >> If one is concerned with survival, grace won't   
   >> come. It comes when one does nothing,   
   >> including for survival.   
   >   
   > You have that backwards.   
   >   
   > Grace is not amenable to what we do or don't do.   
      
   I for one think it is quite related to what we do or don't do, and more   
   importantly, why we do or don't do it.   
      
   >  It is beyond being the   
   > effect of our desires.   
      
   It isn't something that can be achieved by wanting to achieve it and   
   working to achieve it, that I agree with, if it's what you meant.  Being   
   totally committed to achieving it is a slightly different matter, you   
   survive it or not.  But goal-less-ness is absolutely essential to being   
   caught up in grace, which some might call harmony with Tao.   
      
   > It either comes or it does not.   
   >   
   > That's what makes it Grace.   
   >   
      
   You seem to have painted it as unaccountably random, and I strongly believe   
   it is not, it is rather the absolute opposite of randomness.  Desire   
   forestalls it, but desire is either lust or fear-in-drag.  Fear forestalls   
   it at a lower level.  But once the crap is cleared away and the individual   
   has become free to recognize whatever is there to be seen, and willing to   
   do so, the individual has reached a point where grace adheres and   
   accumulates, similar to the way enculturated obligations adhere and   
   accumulate into a tinfoil hat of restriction while we are children, the   
   difference being that grace accumulates as the tinfoil is removed, and the   
   now-adult individual can see the porn as well as the disney stuff, and   
   differentiate between what is and what is-not, since the veils of Maya are   
   held in place by desire.  Except that grace isn some after-market bolt-on,   
   it's the real item.   
      
   imo.   
      
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)