XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: absfg_wilson@yahoo.com   
      
   On 11/8/2016 3:05 PM, noname wrote:   
   > Wilson  wrote:   
   >   
   >> It either comes or it does not.   
   >>   
   >> That's what makes it Grace.   
   >>   
   >   
   > You seem to have painted it as unaccountably random, and I strongly believe   
   > it is not, it is rather the absolute opposite of randomness.  Desire   
   > forestalls it, but desire is either lust or fear-in-drag.  Fear forestalls   
   > it at a lower level.  But once the crap is cleared away and the individual   
   > has become free to recognize whatever is there to be seen, and willing to   
   > do so, the individual has reached a point where grace adheres and   
   > accumulates, similar to the way enculturated obligations adhere and   
   > accumulate into a tinfoil hat of restriction while we are children, the   
   > difference being that grace accumulates as the tinfoil is removed, and the   
   > now-adult individual can see the porn as well as the disney stuff, and   
   > differentiate between what is and what is-not, since the veils of Maya are   
   > held in place by desire.  Except that grace isn some after-market bolt-on,   
   > it's the real item.   
   >   
   > imo.   
      
    From the human consciousness point of view grace does seem random.   
   Like from out of nowhere it descends upon one, without apparent cause.   
   Good works can't make it happen, good thinking won't manifest it on   
   demand, and you definitely can't force it into being not even with lots   
   and lots of effort.   
      
   I'm with you on the part where it can be forestalled.  And ignored too   
   probably.  It seems I may have ignored and misplaced more grace than I   
   should ever have expected to have received.   
      
   But it's all good in the end.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)