XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen
From: invalid@invalid.invalid
Tang Huyen wrote:
> On 11/9/2016 6:39 PM, brian mitchell wrote:
>
>> The key term here is 'discourse'.
>>
>> The compilations of public cases, like the Gateless gate or Blue Cliff
>> Records, are rather like the action replays on sports tv, where they
>> concentrate exclusively on the goal, the touchdown, the match point,
>> which are the spectacular culmination of a lengthy process.
>> Intellectual engagement with, and exploration of, the Dharma, study of
>> the sutras, and so on, weren't discouraged in Buddhist monasteries,
>> far from it, even though the essence lies outside thought. I don't
>> think it was the *relative* nature of anything in speech or thought
>> that was in the masters' sights, so much as the total incapacity of
>> thought to approach that which begins where thought ends.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> But I think you'd acknowledge that a student has to be at a particular
>> pitch of one-pointed readiness before such mind hits could have any
>> effect. I doubt any masters spouted nonsense simply for the empty sake
>> of it.
>
> Another whopper. "I doubt any masters spouted nonsense
> simply for the empty sake of it."
>
> I am not qualified to judge, but suspect that at least some
> recorded discourse is exactly "spouted nonsense simply
> for the empty sake of it." That is very felicitous wording,
> for a very felicitous method (dharma).
>
> If "the essence lies outside thought", to spout utter
> nonsense would be an effective way to point at such
> essence (though the word essence is not felicitous), by
> way of reducing speech and thought to inanity. Iow, "to
> impress on their students the relative nature of anything
> in speech and thought," the masters would exactly "spout
> nonsense simply for the empty sake of it." Emptiness
> answers emptiness, back and forth. "Vanity of vanities".
>
> Not just for the students present on the occasion, but for
> everybody who may hear or read the recorded sayings.
> That is why there are records.
>
> Contrariwise, in Jewish mythology, all teachings are
> purportedly "graven on stone tablets", so that the words
> are valid in and of themselves, as perfect and permanent
> condensations of the divine will. Every word is true flat-out,
> and cannot be taken as symbolic or in an idealistic manner.
> In such milieu, it would indeed be true that the prophets
> would never "spout nonsense simply for the empty sake of
> it." Except for the Ecclesiastes, of course. Hehe.
>
> I have accused Neddie, noname dears of being realist,
> literalist and followers of Jewish mythology. You fall neatly
> into the same class. None of the three of you methinks has
> ever any glimmer of the message of Oriental philosophy,
> regardless of externalities.
>
> Unintended humour is the best humour. Thank you for your
> numerous contributions. It may behoove to record them for
> posterity. They are precious -- real hits -- specially as they
> are directly in English.
>
> Tang Huyen
>
Western Philosophers, Oriental Philosophers, Jewish mythology, those are
all just colors you want to paint your niggers so you can play them down as
groups cuz that's easier than the meat of the subject. Get down to it
brother, play your music, they're so lame they can't hear You anyhow, and
out here in the boondocks nobody will hear whether I'm farting over the
rough spots it'll be all you, bring it, basket-boy. Skip past the prelude
and the foreplay, deliver the goods, awaken us. Right fucking now. Here.
Happen it, dude.
--
email: noname.1234567.abcdef@gmail.com
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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