XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   brian mitchell  wrote:   
   > "Ned Ludd" wrote:   
   >   
   >>   
   >> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >> news:re0f2c98d4lrgp4dbj6lf3l14fg1ka743t@4ax.com...   
   >>> "Kitty P" wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:rgvc2cp8busdrng14sng534clu6ph6c0h6@4ax.com...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> ..., so much as the total incapacity of   
   >>>>>>>> thought to approach that which begins where thought ends.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Thought can eliminate the places it isn't...   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Sounds contradictory. Can you elaborate?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> What good will it do for me to speak of that about which too much is   
   >>>>> already spoken to no effect?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If you want to go to the place where there thought transcends itself, you   
   >>>>> can start by eliminating all the places where it doesn't transcend   
   >>>>> itself...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's not real to me that thought can transcend itself, so perhaps you   
   >>>> have a different notion of what thought is than I do. Can you say what   
   >>>> thought is --without going into the various things it does? How does   
   >>>> it transcend itself?   
   >>>> ______________________________   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The only time I can stop thought is when meditating. My ex husband was   
   >>>> great   
   >>>> at it with alcohol.  I would love to know how to magically transcend it by   
   >>>> what? More thought?  Really am interested in knowing..   
   >>>   
   >>> It's often stated that by observing thought one comes to perceive the   
   >>> silence between thoughts but I've not (yet?) had that experience. What   
   >>> I've found is that even when the chatter dies down there is still an   
   >>> ever-present consciousness of self, which is simply a wordless   
   >>> thought.   
   >>>   
   >>> What is interesting, though, and I think worth pursuing, is that   
   >>> there's no essential difference between thought and perception. It's   
   >>> the same mind that perceives thought inwardly or objects outwardly. A   
   >>> thought is, after all, only an inward object. The bigger problem, I   
   >>> come to think, is not that we have thoughts which need to be stopped,   
   >>> but that our thinking so comprehensively monopolises attention. I   
   >>> suppose it is inevitable that it would because it is a) the very   
   >>> nearest object, and b) *my* object. So whether attention is captivated   
   >>> inwardly or outwardly, we are the prisoners of objects.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Prisoner #1:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Let Your Mind Be Free   
   >>   
   >> It has been asked, "How should those who enter the path   
   >> apply their minds?" All things are originally uncreated   
   >> and presently undying. Just let your mind be free; you   
   >> don't have to restrain it. See directly and hear directly;   
   >> come directly and go directly. When you must go, then go;   
   >> when you must stay, then stay.  This is the true path.   
   >> A scripture says, "Conditional existence is the site of   
   >> enlightenment, insofar as you know it as it really is."   
   >>   
   >> - Niu-t'ou Hui-chung   
   >>   
   > But he doesn't mention thought and how it generates interiority. I   
   > could come and go with the wind  "...but that I have dreams..."   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)