XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   liaM  wrote:   
   > On 11/12/2016 11:38 PM, Ned Ludd wrote:   
   >>   
   >> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >> news:re0f2c98d4lrgp4dbj6lf3l14fg1ka743t@4ax.com...   
   >>> "Kitty P" wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:rgvc2cp8busdrng14sng534clu6ph6c0h6@4ax.com...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> ..., so much as the total incapacity of   
   >>>>>>>> thought to approach that which begins where thought ends.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Thought can eliminate the places it isn't...   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Sounds contradictory. Can you elaborate?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> What good will it do for me to speak of that about which too much is   
   >>>>> already spoken to no effect?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> If you want to go to the place where there thought transcends   
   >>>>> itself, you   
   >>>>> can start by eliminating all the places where it doesn't transcend   
   >>>>> itself...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's not real to me that thought can transcend itself, so perhaps you   
   >>>> have a different notion of what thought is than I do. Can you say what   
   >>>> thought is --without going into the various things it does? How does   
   >>>> it transcend itself?   
   >>>> ______________________________   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The only time I can stop thought is when meditating. My ex husband   
   >>>> was great   
   >>>> at it with alcohol.  I would love to know how to magically transcend   
   >>>> it by   
   >>>> what? More thought?  Really am interested in knowing..   
   >>>   
   >>> It's often stated that by observing thought one comes to perceive the   
   >>> silence between thoughts but I've not (yet?) had that experience. What   
   >>> I've found is that even when the chatter dies down there is still an   
   >>> ever-present consciousness of self, which is simply a wordless   
   >>> thought.   
   >>>   
   >>> What is interesting, though, and I think worth pursuing, is that   
   >>> there's no essential difference between thought and perception. It's   
   >>> the same mind that perceives thought inwardly or objects outwardly. A   
   >>> thought is, after all, only an inward object. The bigger problem, I   
   >>> come to think, is not that we have thoughts which need to be stopped,   
   >>> but that our thinking so comprehensively monopolises attention. I   
   >>> suppose it is inevitable that it would because it is a) the very   
   >>> nearest object, and b) *my* object. So whether attention is captivated   
   >>> inwardly or outwardly, we are the prisoners of objects.   
   >>>   
   >>> What I now wonder is whether one can de-couple the mind from its   
   >>> automatic grasping of objects. Jean Klein, a figure in the modern   
   >>> Western advaita movement, advocates this. He suggests that we should   
   >>> take the heard back to hearing, the seen back to seeing, etc. The   
   >>> direction of this is inward and towards letting attention come to rest   
   >>> on the singleness and homogeneity of consciousness. This may not be   
   >>> anything more than a description of the meditation we all do, except   
   >>> that I think the notion of de-coupling from objects is something that   
   >>> can be carried off the cushion in a practical way.   
   >>>   
   >>> Sensation, perception, feeling, thought... it's all one thing.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Inward and Outward Views   
   >>   
   >> To cling to oneself as Buddha, oneself as Zen or the way,   
   >> making that an understanding, is called clinging to the   
   >> inward view.  Attainment by causes and conditions, practice   
   >> and realization, is called the outward view.  Master Pao-chih   
   >> said, "The inward view and the outward view are both mistakes.   
   >>   
   >> - Pai-chang   
   >>   
   >   
   >   
   > The essential kernel of the teachings of Gautama was to promote and   
   > achieve permanent self-hypnosis.  Or, in Tang Huyen's case,   
   > self-hypgnosis.   
   >   
   > I - not Pai-Chang - have spoken this day, the 13th November 2016.   
   >   
      
   And here I was under the naive impression that Gautama's message was that   
   men are hypnotized by maya and need to wake the fuck up so they can move   
   past whining about foul-mouthed-meanies picking on them and suck up the   
   guts to lead the life they're in.   
      
   --   
   email: noname.1234567.abcdef@gmail.com   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)