XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: cuddly@mindless.com   
      
   On 11/13/2016 11:08 AM, noname wrote:   
   > liaM  wrote:   
   >> On 11/12/2016 11:38 PM, Ned Ludd wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:re0f2c98d4lrgp4dbj6lf3l14fg1ka743t@4ax.com...   
   >>>> "Kitty P" wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "brian mitchell"  wrote in message   
   >>>>> news:rgvc2cp8busdrng14sng534clu6ph6c0h6@4ax.com...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>>> noname wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> ..., so much as the total incapacity of   
   >>>>>>>>> thought to approach that which begins where thought ends.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Thought can eliminate the places it isn't...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Sounds contradictory. Can you elaborate?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> What good will it do for me to speak of that about which too much is   
   >>>>>> already spoken to no effect?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> If you want to go to the place where there thought transcends   
   >>>>>> itself, you   
   >>>>>> can start by eliminating all the places where it doesn't transcend   
   >>>>>> itself...   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> It's not real to me that thought can transcend itself, so perhaps you   
   >>>>> have a different notion of what thought is than I do. Can you say what   
   >>>>> thought is --without going into the various things it does? How does   
   >>>>> it transcend itself?   
   >>>>> ______________________________   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> The only time I can stop thought is when meditating. My ex husband   
   >>>>> was great   
   >>>>> at it with alcohol.  I would love to know how to magically transcend   
   >>>>> it by   
   >>>>> what? More thought?  Really am interested in knowing..   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's often stated that by observing thought one comes to perceive the   
   >>>> silence between thoughts but I've not (yet?) had that experience. What   
   >>>> I've found is that even when the chatter dies down there is still an   
   >>>> ever-present consciousness of self, which is simply a wordless   
   >>>> thought.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> What is interesting, though, and I think worth pursuing, is that   
   >>>> there's no essential difference between thought and perception. It's   
   >>>> the same mind that perceives thought inwardly or objects outwardly. A   
   >>>> thought is, after all, only an inward object. The bigger problem, I   
   >>>> come to think, is not that we have thoughts which need to be stopped,   
   >>>> but that our thinking so comprehensively monopolises attention. I   
   >>>> suppose it is inevitable that it would because it is a) the very   
   >>>> nearest object, and b) *my* object. So whether attention is captivated   
   >>>> inwardly or outwardly, we are the prisoners of objects.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> What I now wonder is whether one can de-couple the mind from its   
   >>>> automatic grasping of objects. Jean Klein, a figure in the modern   
   >>>> Western advaita movement, advocates this. He suggests that we should   
   >>>> take the heard back to hearing, the seen back to seeing, etc. The   
   >>>> direction of this is inward and towards letting attention come to rest   
   >>>> on the singleness and homogeneity of consciousness. This may not be   
   >>>> anything more than a description of the meditation we all do, except   
   >>>> that I think the notion of de-coupling from objects is something that   
   >>>> can be carried off the cushion in a practical way.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Sensation, perception, feeling, thought... it's all one thing.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Inward and Outward Views   
   >>>   
   >>> To cling to oneself as Buddha, oneself as Zen or the way,   
   >>> making that an understanding, is called clinging to the   
   >>> inward view.  Attainment by causes and conditions, practice   
   >>> and realization, is called the outward view.  Master Pao-chih   
   >>> said, "The inward view and the outward view are both mistakes.   
   >>>   
   >>> - Pai-chang   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> The essential kernel of the teachings of Gautama was to promote and   
   >> achieve permanent self-hypnosis.  Or, in Tang Huyen's case,   
   >> self-hypgnosis.   
   >>   
   >> I - not Pai-Chang - have spoken this day, the 13th November 2016.   
   >>   
   >   
   > And here I was under the naive impression that Gautama's message was that   
   > men are hypnotized by maya and need to wake the fuck up so they can move   
   > past whining about foul-mouthed-meanies picking on them and suck up the   
   > guts to lead the life they're in.   
   >   
      
      
   kif kif  (fast way to say "same thing" - applies in France, comes from   
   the Arab)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)