XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   brian mitchell  wrote:   
   > Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 11/12/2016 7:13 PM, awaken21 wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> Words of the masters still have the context of the   
   >>> circumstances of the moment in which they were   
   >>> uttered, something masters are one with.   
   >>   
   >> As present-day aspirants, should we try to replicate   
   >> being one with the old masters in the circumstances   
   >> of the moment in which their words were uttered?   
   >> Or should we try to just be one with the circumstances   
   >> of our moment? If the former, are we trying to relive a   
   >> long gone moment, like a dead insect pinned on the   
   >> wall of some museum? If the latter, do we need the   
   >> context of the circumstances of the moment in which   
   >> the masters uttered their words?   
   >>   
   >> Are we trying to fit into an ancient context, with exotic   
   >> overtones all around? Or are we trying to be free? If   
   >> the former, we would be merely antiquarians with   
   >> voyeuristic tendencies. If the latter, we would shed   
   >> everything and live in the moment, in the here and now,   
   >> with everything else sloughed off, floating around like a   
   >> butterfly in the golden breeze of Autumn.   
   >>   
   >> Of course, it can be argued that we take a ride on the   
   >> freedom of the old masters by way of their recorded   
   >> words and gestures, and try to bring back their   
   >> freedom to life in our flesh and blood lives. But   
   >> precisely, their freedom freed them from whatever their   
   >> milieu was, so why would we need to recreate their   
   >> scenery, right down to the last comma?   
   >>   
   >> Of course, to wish for freedom does not make it so, and   
   >> it still takes long and hard work, with no guarantee of   
   >> success, but we can just be mindful, which means being   
   >> mindful of ourselves in our circumstances, whatever   
   >> they are or are not, and be one with them, which means   
   >> dropping all identifications with anything and anybody,   
   >> ourselves included. If so, why do we need the context of   
   >> the circumstances of the moment in which the masters   
   >> uttered their words? Why load ourselves up on it, just   
   >> when we try to unload everything and be free? Should   
   >> we not travel light? (All the usual disclaimers ...)   
   >   
   > Oh, right. So you won't be quoting Madame Guyon, or Fenelon, or   
   > Meister Eckhart, or Marcus Aurelius, or Kant, or Hegel, or any of   
   > those dead people speaking from their dead milieu? And, of course, you   
   > won't be trying to re-intuit anything those dead people intuited,   
   > since they must have been merely the creatures of their circumstances,   
   > which are never repeated. This is interesting news.   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)