XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: invalid@invalid.invalid   
      
   noname  wrote:   
   > brian mitchell  wrote:   
   >> Tang Huyen wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 11/12/2016 7:13 PM, awaken21 wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> Words of the masters still have the context of the   
   >>>> circumstances of the moment in which they were   
   >>>> uttered, something masters are one with.   
   >>>   
   >>> As present-day aspirants, should we try to replicate   
   >>> being one with the old masters in the circumstances   
   >>> of the moment in which their words were uttered?   
   >>> Or should we try to just be one with the circumstances   
   >>> of our moment? If the former, are we trying to relive a   
   >>> long gone moment, like a dead insect pinned on the   
   >>> wall of some museum? If the latter, do we need the   
   >>> context of the circumstances of the moment in which   
   >>> the masters uttered their words?   
   >>>   
   >>> Are we trying to fit into an ancient context, with exotic   
   >>> overtones all around? Or are we trying to be free? If   
   >>> the former, we would be merely antiquarians with   
   >>> voyeuristic tendencies. If the latter, we would shed   
   >>> everything and live in the moment, in the here and now,   
   >>> with everything else sloughed off, floating around like a   
   >>> butterfly in the golden breeze of Autumn.   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course, it can be argued that we take a ride on the   
   >>> freedom of the old masters by way of their recorded   
   >>> words and gestures, and try to bring back their   
   >>> freedom to life in our flesh and blood lives. But   
   >>> precisely, their freedom freed them from whatever their   
   >>> milieu was, so why would we need to recreate their   
   >>> scenery, right down to the last comma?   
   >>>   
   >>> Of course, to wish for freedom does not make it so, and   
   >>> it still takes long and hard work, with no guarantee of   
   >>> success, but we can just be mindful, which means being   
   >>> mindful of ourselves in our circumstances, whatever   
   >>> they are or are not, and be one with them, which means   
   >>> dropping all identifications with anything and anybody,   
   >>> ourselves included. If so, why do we need the context of   
   >>> the circumstances of the moment in which the masters   
   >>> uttered their words? Why load ourselves up on it, just   
   >>> when we try to unload everything and be free? Should   
   >>> we not travel light? (All the usual disclaimers ...)   
   >>   
   >> Oh, right. So you won't be quoting Madame Guyon, or Fenelon, or   
   >> Meister Eckhart, or Marcus Aurelius, or Kant, or Hegel, or any of   
   >> those dead people speaking from their dead milieu? And, of course, you   
   >> won't be trying to re-intuit anything those dead people intuited,   
   >> since they must have been merely the creatures of their circumstances,   
   >> which are never repeated. This is interesting news.   
   >>   
      
   >   
      
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