XPost: alt.philosophy.taoism, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy, alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: wudao@wuji.net   
      
   Tang wrote:   
   > {:-]))) wrote:   
   >   
   >> There is a name that cannot be spoken.   
   >>   
   >> It is not so much that the Tetragrammaton is so sacred   
   >> but that to speak of it already is to place it in a form   
   >> of second-level thought.   
   >>   
   >> I would have thought you would have known that.   
   >>   
   >> But, then, what do I know of what you know   
   >> might be similar to what Huizi knew when Zz knew *that*   
   >> the fish were quite happy swimming near the Hao   
   >> River Dam, darting about like ninja stars.   
   >>   
   >> [snip]   
   >>   
   >> Note: no disclaimers provided.   
   >   
   >Of course I knew about that.   
      
   When Huizi asked Zz how he knew, Zz said   
   Huizi already knew Zz knew, at the Hao.   
      
   >There are bits of profound   
   >wisdom in Jewish mythology, like in the always convenient   
   >Ecclesiastes. The "I am that I am" (or some such,   
   >translations vary)   
      
   Promise keeper is one such.   
      
   > is often taken in French Catholic circles   
   >to mean that the Jewish Yahweh did not want to let himself   
   >be known.   
      
   The Book says, iirc, in Ex. 6:3-4, that having been known   
   in times past by various names, now-then,   
   YHWH was about to keep His promise, given to old Abe.   
      
   When Abe had asked for a sign, it took a spell.   
      
   >Those bits of utter wisdom are however often   
   >ridden roughshod over, and are lucky even to be merely   
   >ignored. Both traditional Judaism and Christianity scarcely   
   >ponder such sayings, which are at best treated as outliers,   
   >specially in learned exegesis.   
      
   Traditionally, Jews never say the name. They substitute,   
   as I would expect you to be fully aware, Adonai.   
      
   Christians know Jehovah as the Keeper of Promises,   
   traditionally, and what He will be, He will be, and was.   
      
   >The surprising thing is that such negation -- negative   
   >theology -- comes back en masse in by way of overt pagans,   
   >the Neoplatonists, specially the Neoplatonic founder,   
   >Plotinus, and his direct disciple, Porphyry, both ardent   
   >anti-Christian agitators, and their influence makes itself felt   
   >in Augustine and the Greek Fathers, Gregory of Nyssa   
   >notably.   
      
   I've heard of apophatic ways.   
   But I am not familiar with any of the names you mention.   
      
   > In fact, the Greek-based Eastern Orthodoxy is more   
   >Neoplatonic than Christian. The hesuchia (peace) school of   
   >meditation in the Eastern Christianity is essentially based   
   >on Neoplatonic justification (the theory) and Indian Yoga   
   >(the practice). Many major Saints of the Catholic Church,   
   >like John of the Cross, are crypto-Neoplatonists who follow   
   >negative theology whilst putting up a Christian facade to   
   >protect the innocent.   
      
   Between gnostic and gnana, yogas may overlap, Venn-wise.   
      
   >As I keep saying, Bernard McGinn of Chicago says that it is   
   >very hard to tell such Saints from the heretics condemned   
   >by the Church, often burnt or drowned, or at least silenced   
   >(like Molinos the Quietist).   
      
   I don't recall you ever saying that.   
   It's possible I was not paying enough attention though.   
      
   >If you read both sides whilst not   
   >knowing who the authors are, you will probably take them   
   >to be soul brothers (or sisters) of the most intimate kind.   
   >   
   >Note: no disclaimers provided.   
      
   Those who are One in the fullest measure   
   tend to be Way beyond measure.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)