Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"
|    talk.religion.buddhism    |    All aspects of Buddhism as religion and    |    111,200 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 110,887 of 111,200    |
|    andrej.segul@gmail.com to attasarana    |
|    Re: Refuting the "no soul" trash of mode    |
|    05 Oct 18 20:12:03    |
      6bc37b8d       On Monday, September 28, 2009 at 12:14:14 AM UTC+5:30, attasarana wrote:       > ANATTA / ANATMAN IN DETAIL       >        > The definition of one word where modern Pseudo-Buddhism took a turn       > into the dark corner of ignorance       > Copyright 2007 webmaster attan.com, REVISED 2-2008       >        > The Buddhist term Anatman (Sanskrit), or Anatta (Pali) is an       > adjective in sutra used to refer to the nature of phenomena as being       > devoid of the Soul, that being the ontological and uncompounded       > subjective Self (atman) which is the “light (dipam), and only       > refuge” [DN 2.100]. Of the 662 occurrences of the term Anatta in the       > Nikayas, its usage is restricted to referring to 22 nouns (forms,       > feelings, perception, experiences, consciousness, the eye, eye-       > consciousness, desires, mentation, mental formations, ear, nose,       > tongue, body, lusts, things unreal, etc.), all phenomenal, as being       > Selfless (anatta). Contrary to countless many popular (=profane, or =       > consensus, from which the truth can ‘never be gathered’) books (as       > Buddhologist C.A.F. Davids has deemed them ‘miserable little books’)       > written outside the scope of Buddhist doctrine, there is no “Doctrine       > of anatta/anatman” mentioned anywhere in the sutras, rather anatta is       > used only to refer to impermanent things/phenomena as other than the       > Soul, to be anatta, or Self-less (an-atta).       > Specifically in sutra, anatta is used to describe the temporal       > and unreal (metaphysically so) nature of any and all composite,       > consubstantial, phenomenal, and temporal things, from macrocosmic to       > microcosmic, be it matter as pertains the physical body, the cosmos at       > large, including any and all mental machinations which are of the       > nature of arising and passing. Anatta in sutra is synonymous and       > interchangeable with the terms dukkha (suffering) and anicca       > (impermanent); all three terms are often used in triplet in making a       > blanket statement as regards any and all phenomena. Such as: “All       > these aggregates are anicca, dukkha, and anatta.” It should be further       > noted that, in doctrine, that the only noun which is branded permanent       > (nicca), is obviously and logically so, the noun attan [Skt. Atman],       > such as passage (SN 1.169).       > Anatta refers specifically and only to the absence of the       > permanent soul as pertains any or all of the psycho-physical (namo-       > rupa) attributes, or khandhas (skandhas, aggregates). Anatta/Anatman       > in the earliest existing Buddhist texts, the Nikayas, is an adjective,       > (A is anatta, B is anatta, C is anatta). The commonly (=profane,       > consensus, herd-views) held belief to wit that: “Anatta means no-soul,       > therefore Buddhism taught that there was no soul” is an irrational       > absurdity which cannot be found or doctrinally substantiated by means       > of the Nikayas, the suttas (Skt. Sutras), of Buddhism.       > The Pali compound term and noun for “no soul” is natthatta       > (literally “there is not/no[nattha]+atta’[Soul]), not the term anatta,       > and is mentioned at Samyutta Nikaya 4.400, where Gotama was asked if       > there “was no-soul (natthatta)”, to which Gotama equated this position       > to be a Nihilistic heresy (ucchedavada). Common throughout Buddhist       > sutra (and Vedanta as well) is the denial of psycho-physical       > attributes of the mere empirical self to be the Soul, or confused with       > same. The Buddhist paradigm (and the most common repeating passage in       > sutta) as regards phenomena is “Na me so atta” (this/these are not my       > soul), this most common utterance of Gotama the Buddha in the Nikayas,       > where “na me so atta” = Anatta/Anatman. In sutta, to hold the view       > that there was “no-Soul” (natthatta) is = natthika (nihilist).       > Buddhism differs from the “nothing-morist” (Skt. Nastika, Pali       > natthika) in affirming a spiritual nature that is not in any wise, but       > immeasurable, inconnumerable, infinite, and inaccessible to       > observation; and of which, therefore, empirical science can neither       > affirm nor deny the reality thereof of him who has ‘Gone to That       > [Brahman]” (tathatta). It is to the Spirit (Skt. Atman, Pali attan) as       > distinguished from oneself (namo-rupa/ or khandhas, mere self as =       > anatta) i.e., whatever is phenomenal and formal (Skt. and Pali nama-       > rupa, and savinnana-kaya) “name and appearance”, and the “body with       > its consciousness”. [SN 2.17] ‘Nonbeing (asat, natthiti [views of       > either sabbamnatthi ‘the all is ultimately not’ (atomism), and sabbam       > puthuttan ‘the all is merely composite’ [SN 2.77] both of this       > positions are existential antinomies, and heresies of       > annihilationism])’”. In contrast it has been incorrectly asserted that       > affirmation of the atman is = sassatavada (conventionally deemed       > ‘eternalism’). However the Pali term sasastavada is never associated       > with the atman, but that the atman was an agent (karmin) in and of       > samsara which is subject to the whims of becoming (bhava), or which is       > meant kammavada (karma-ism, or merit agencyship); such as sassatavada       > in sutta = “atta ca so loka ca” (the atman and the world [are one]),       > or: ‘Being (sat, atthiti [views of either sabbamatthi ‘the all is       > entirety’, and sabbamekattan ‘the all is one’s Soul’ [SN 2.77] both       > are heresies of perpetualism]). Sasastavada is the wrong conception       > that one is perpetually (sassata) bound within samsara and that merit       > is the highest attainment for either this life or for the next. The       > heretical antinomy to nihilism (vibhava, or = ucchedavada) is not, nor       > in sutta, the atman, but bhava (becoming, agencyship). Forever, or       > eternal becoming is nowhere in sutta identified with the atman, which       > is “never an agent (karmin)”, and “has never become       > anything” (=bhava). These antinomies of bhava (sassatavada) and       > vibhava (ucchedavada) both entail illogical positions untenable to the       > Vedantic or Buddhist atman; however the concept of “eternalism” as =       > atman has been the fallacious secondary crutch for supporting the no-       > atman commentarialists position on anatta implying = there is no       > atman.       > Logically so, according to the philosophical premise of Gotama,       > the initiate to Buddhism who is to be “shown the way to Immortality              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca