XPost: alt.bible, alt.messianic, alt.religion.christian   
   XPost: alt.christnet.christianlife   
   From: tiller@soil.org.9   
      
   i like this one; commonly translated as;   
      
   ===   
   3:22   
      
   And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,   
   to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand,   
   and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:   
   ===   
      
   i think it would be better translated as;   
      
   ===   
   And YHWH God said; Behold, the man is become as another [away] FROM us,   
   to perceive good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand,   
   and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:   
   ===   
      
      
   as if, the man was -another- to fall =away FROM= YHWH as the serpent   
   already had. because the man certainly did not become one like   
   YHWH God but became more like the serpent away FROM God.   
      
   and this is evident in the vowel pointers inserted by the Masoretes,   
   and, if you did look at the Masoretic text you would see that,   
   when the same vowel pointers are used by them, in other places,   
   you always get "From" and not "of"   
      
   for instance;   
      
   that  _of_  found in genesis 3:22   מִ מֶּ נּו  [as one _of_ us]   
      
   is the same "from" found in Exodus 8:8 where Pharoah   
   asks for the frogs to be taken -away- _from_  מִ מ him   
      
   and also, the same "from" as Moses says, you shall   
   -not- take away "from" מִ מֶּ נּו the words of this law,   
   neither shall you add to it. {Deut 12:32]   
      
   and "from" is just about always speaking of a thing   
   that is taken =away= _from_ something else, even if it   
   is a thing eaten -from- a particular tree.   
      
   one plucks a piece of fruit away -from- a tree,   
   and when you do, that piece of fruit is no   
   longer part of that tree, and generally   
   begins to decay.   
      
   so, even if one suggests that "The Man"   
      
   was pushed or pulled -away- =from= YHWH   
      
   "The Man" is still, -away- _from_ YHWH   
      
   and -not- "One -of- Us"   
      
      
     ...that tree was not "good for food"   
      
   and Eve \thought\ it was "pleasing to the eye" but later   
   said she was "tricked" God's tree plantings were "pleasing to the eye"   
   and/or "good for food." i have a theory that the tree itself was   
   the serpent's own ideology and not God's tree.   
      
   so, it could not have made the couple "like God" but "like the serpent"   
      
   see it's all very simple, and rapt up in the very identifiers of YHWH   
   to make this as simple as possible, let's just deal with singulars   
   like "i" and "me" even if we may find that we have to broaden out   
   to "we" and "us" because the reality is sort of that way.   
      
   ok, so, YHWH says things to the effect;   
      
   "i am what i will be"   
   "i will be what i was"   
   "i am what i am"   
   "i will be what i will be"   
      
   things like that, where the implication is of   
   the steadfast nature of YHWH,   
      
   that YHWH really and truly -is- The Same YHWH yesterday and   
   in the future, where "right now" is that very elusive thing   
   that you can't quite hold in your hands but everyone would   
   like to think that there is such a thing,  "right now"   
   ...oops slipped away, that was -then- and this is -now- ...   
      
   so, YHWH is always and forever, YHWH   
      
   not a stagnant pond, but a fountain of Living Waters...   
      
   where we have a "multifaceted" personality with a "manifold wisdom"   
      
   ok, so, now, we think we have a bead on YHWH, hold that for a moment...   
      
   now, we want to look as some -other- personalities, even if these   
   personalities were originally manufactured -by- YHWH, these same   
   personalities, begin to exhibit a "turning away" -from- original specs   
      
   and do -not- "become what they are"   
      
   but, instead, "become what they are -not-"   
      
   in other words, a distorted lie of sorts   
      
   of their -own- manufacture.   
      
      
   now, we look at these three;   
      
   the Nachash/serpent in the earthly garden of delights, [genesis 3]   
      
   "HeylEl" sometimes called "Lucifer" "light bringer" [Isaiah 14]   
      
   and the King of Tyre who was spoken of as an "anointed Cherub" [Ezekiel 28]   
      
      
   the thing that you'll find similar among all these,   
      
   is that they did -not-   
      
   "become what they were" or "be what they be"   
      
   -like- YHWH   
      
   but that they "became what they were not"   
      
   which is to say, -they- "changed"   
      
   and "changed" for the -worse- and -not- the better.   
      
   no, they did not become more -like- "The Original"   
      
   they wandered -away- =FROM= the Original and   
      
   wandered off in to a distorted lie.   
      
      
   it says;   
      
   "the serpent became crafty"   
      
   "Heylel proposed in [his] heart to become   
   self Magnified and self Glorified, and was 'cut down'   
      
   and that anointed Cherub was created 'flawless'   
   and -became- filled with 'violence and injustice'   
      
   point being, they all "became what they were not"   
      
   the "good" that they were created in, -became- a "bad" lie   
      
   -they- developed a "perception of good and bad"   
      
   -they- questioned the Word of YHWH   
      
   -they- 'proposed' a lie in their hearts   
      
   -they- -became- 'unjust'   
      
      
      
   and YHWH   
      
   "i am what i will be"   
   "i will be what i was"   
   "i am what i am"   
   "i will be what i will be"   
      
      
   so, these all fell -away- =from= YHWH   
      
   and now, we see the two humans in the garden...   
      
   "Adam and Eve" if you like... or "The Man" if you will...   
      
      
   when they ate of that tree of the perception of good and bad   
      
      
   -they- =fell= AWAY _FROM_ YHWH and did -not- 'become' "Like YHWH"   
      
      
   -they- became 'like' The serpent...AWAY _From_ YHWH   
      
      
   "Behold, "The Man" has become another [AWAY] _From_ 'Us'   
      
   to have a perception of good and bad"   
      
      
      
   and that _from_    found in genesis 3:22   
      
   is the same "from" found in Exodus 8:8 where Pharoah   
   asks for the frogs to be taken -away- _from_ him   
      
   and also, teh same "from" as Moses says, you shall   
   -not- take away "from" the words of this law,   
   neither shall you add to it.   
      
   and "from" is just about always speaking of a thing   
   that is taken away from something else, even if it   
   is a thing eaten -from- a particular tree.   
      
   one plucks a piece of fruit away -from- a tree,   
   and when you do, that piece of fruit is no   
   longer part of that tree, and generally   
   begins to decay.   
      
   so, even if one suggests that "The Man"   
      
   was pushed or pulled -away- =from= YHWH   
      
   "The Man" is still, -away- _from_ YHWH   
      
   and -not- "One -of- Us"   
      
   "One -of- Us" is the very =lie= the serpent told to "the Man"   
      
   [yeah yeah yeah, i already said Adam and   
     Eve could be referred to as "the man"   
     even if they did become distinct]   
      
   YHWH never said;   
      
   "do not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it,   
   you shall become like YHWH and i don't want that"   
      
      
   no no no, YHWH said;   
      
      
   "do not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it,   
      
   To Die you shall Die"   
      
      
   in other words, "you shall become DEAD"   
      
      
   and we see how the serpent's form, was actually -changed-   
   by YHWH so as to reflect the change that had already occurred   
   in the serpent's heart, becoming 'crafty' and not of the Truth.   
      
      
   oh, and one other little bit;   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)