Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"
|    talk.religion.newage    |    Esoteric and minority religions & philos    |    9,157 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 7,658 of 9,157    |
|    ibshambat@gmail.com to All    |
|    Consciousness, Social Norms and Reality     |
|    04 Oct 16 18:54:15    |
      The project of consciousness movement has been to make the unconscious       conscious. It has been to examine the influences that one has had and discard       what is invalid. I have had many influences, many of them vastly conflicting       with one another; and I have        been doing a lot to examine them, partly by myself and partly with the efforts       of others.              I have known any number of people who did not like it where they came from,       but still kept many of their attitudes. When I was 18 I had feelings for a       woman named Louise. She came from the South, but she did not like many things       about the South. They        however remained within her. I loved the part of herself that was her and       hated what came from the South. She has since then done a lot by way of       examining her influences, and now we are best friends.              This brings me to a different topic, and that is adaptation to society. Many       of the same people who militate against government power are insisting that       people adapt to social norms. My response to that is based on political       science. A rule that is not        official is one that is not subject to accountability, check and balance, and       that as such has nothing to keep it from becoming tyrannical. I would respect       an official law, I would not respect a law that is unofficial, nor would I       recommend that others        do either. If you want your norms to be binding, pass a law toward that effect.              My parents did a lot by way of assimilating into America, and both of them are       quite comfortable. I instead did my own thing. My life has not been as       comfortable as theirs, but I have done more to contribute to culture and       thought. I have translated five        books of classical Russian poetry into English. America benefits both from       people like them and people like me.              Should immigrants, as some say, assimilate? Doing so denies America all sorts       of useful input. Nothing is owed to guys from Middle East who come to America       and teach men in disadvantaged communities to be bastards; but much is in fact       owed to people who        bring into America valuable things from abroad. Americans eat at Chinese       restaurants, drive Japanese cars, employ Hindu programmers, view movies made       by Jews, follow sports played by black people. All of these people contribute       much more to America than        they would have if they had simply assimilated.              It is of course legitimate to demand that people follow actual laws. It is in       no way legitimate to demand that people follow laws that are unofficial. Once       again, a rule that is unofficial is not subject to checks, balance and       accountability. This means        that it has nothing to keep it from becoming tyrannical. And tyranny is not       what America is meant to be about.              Once again, I would follow a rule that is official. I would not follow a rule       that is unofficial, nor would I recommend that anyone else do either.              It is most certainly valid to understand where others are coming from; and I       have done much work toward that effect, mainly at the encouragement of people       whose views I respected. What is not legitimate is imposing on people       unofficial codes of conduct.        If you want your social norms to be binding, pass a law. Subject it to checks,       balance and accountability. Do not create a hidden totalitarianism in a nation       that is intended to be free.              Probably the best thing to have come out of consciousness movement has been       the process of seeing such influences and making them conscious. That way one       knows what influences one has had and can separate the grain from the chaff.       Most of what one finds        there is partly true. Most influences are right in some ways and wrong in       others. The first step however is seeing them; at which point one can decide       which influence is right and about what.              IN my generation, where everyone has been exposed to all sorts of conflicting       influences, this process is necessary. We have been living in the world in       which everyone influences one another in all sorts of directions. When Scott       Lasch said that my        generation was at sea, what he was seeing is an inevitable effect of       democracy. Everyone will influence one another. The solution is not to prevent       a mix; it is for people to see every influence for what it is and keep what is       right while discarding what        is wrong with each.              When I left the corporate world at age 24, I was accused of leaving reality.       What I did instead was work on my mind to get rid of things that I had not       chosen to be there in order to replace them with more informed choice. That of       course got me labeled        by any number of people as crazy or irresponsible. In fact it was highly       responsible. I was making the unconscious conscious in order that I could make       more informed choice.              Of course the consciousness movement – and its outgrowth the New Age –       made any number of errors of their own. They decided that people's beliefs are       the only factor in shaping their reality. That is very transparently false.       Their situation is owed        partly to them, and partly to all sorts of other factors, both ones human and       ones non-human. They did not create the Sun or the Earth, and they did not       create America.              When an adaptation or a mindset considers itself to be reality and nothing       else to be reality, this error is one natural. They say instead that people       make their reality. The problem in both cases is what people consider reality       to be. A mindset or an        adaptation is real enough, but in no way is it the whole of reality. Reality       also includes the Sun, the Universe, the Earth, the oceans and the air, and       other civilizations. Garbage in garbage out, as the computer programmers say.       You create a false        definition of reality, others may buy into that definition and see reality as       such as the problem. The solution is not to side with either error, but to       have a more complete view as to what reality is.              Reality as such of course is highly complex; and it includes all sorts of       factors. I cannot accept the claims of materialist fundamentalists because I       and any number of others – including people with strong academic and       professional credentials –        have had very real spiritual experiences. Nor can I accept the idea that       people make their reality; it is obviously incorrect. I do not know at this       time how to reconcile what we know from science with the experiences that       people have had and continue to        have. I do however know that both sides – the one that says that       spirituality is for loonies and the one that says that people make their       reality – are wrong.                            [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca