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|    talk.religion.newage    |    Esoteric and minority religions & philos    |    9,157 messages    |
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|    Message 7,774 of 9,157    |
|    ibshambat@gmail.com to All    |
|    Logic, Religion and Spiritual Experience    |
|    19 Aug 17 01:24:57    |
      For a very long time I have encountered attitudes such as that religion and       spirituality are for idiots, lunatics and conmen. My response to that is that       I do not have the luxury of such beliefs.              I am in no way a stupid person. I was very precocious as a child, and as a       child I developed – through my own motivation – extensive knowledge of       subjects such as geography, biology and astrophysics. I have an education in       economics and psychology        from a major American university, that I got at age 18. I also have extensive       experience in computer industry. I can do logic well enough. However what I       have found is that many people who claim to have logical worldview have       adopted logic as a worldview        rather than as a method; and that is a wrong conception of logic. Logic is       about reasoning and evidence. When an experience contradicts one's worldview,       the logical thing is not to deny the experience – as many who have this       worldview are prone to        doing – but to correct the worldview.              It is frequently thought by people who have this worldview that religious       people are bigots. While some are just that, there are any number of others       who have a very good reason for what they believe. I started out as a militant       atheist. But I have had        any number of experiences with less than a billionth chance of happening,       whose only explanations are spiritual; and I am I no way the only one.              I will share some of these experiences here.              In 1995, I had a passionate relationship with a woman named Michelle, who had       finished Harvard in three years and who was a poet. In 2000 I wanted to have       it recapitulated. What happened was that I started corresponding with a woman       named Michele, who        had finished Caltech in 3 years, who was a poet, and who in 1995 had had a       passionate relationship with a man from Bulgaria whose last name was similar       to my middle name.              One day my girlfriend woke up in the middle of the night complaining that her       ex-husband was talking to her in spirit. In the morning she decided to test       this, so she said in her head, “OK Todd, if you have been talking to me in       spirit then call me.”        30 seconds later Todd calls her and tells her that he has been talking to her       in spirit.              One day, in a meditation, I saw an outpouring of sorrow in Argentina. Shortly       thereafter I picked up a paper and found out that there was an outpouring of       sorrow in Argentina because someone had died.              I used to see “master numbers” on the clock – numbers such as 2:22 or       5:55. One day I set up an experiment. I set four different clocks to four       different times, and I recorded every time that I looked at the clock. One in       ten of what I got were “       master numbers” when by chance it would be one in sixty.              I was contemplating what kind of a woman I wanted, and I decided that I wanted       the best artist. Soon after that, I met Julia, who was a magnificent artist as       well as an especially beautiful woman, and she was in the middle of leaving       her husband, which        is the only time that a woman as beautiful as her would be single. I am       neither especially attractive or especially socially skilled. When I met her,       I wanted to introduce her to a friend of mine who is a successful businessman.       But she told me that she        had feelings for me. The result was me being with her and writing her a poetry       book that made me – and her – the talk of DC poetry scene.              It would not at all be logical to deny these experiences, and many others that       I have had. It is logical to use them to have a more complete view of reality.       I do not deny chemistry or physics. I see it as being part of the picture       rather than the whole        picture. It is wrong to deny the validity of such things; but it is also wrong       to deny the reality of spiritual experience.              I had a mathematics teacher named Henry Biddle, who was a devout Christian.       Mr. Biddle was a brilliant and ethical man who continued teaching mathematics       well into his retirement. He told me that there was nothing contradictory       between Christianity and        science. I know a distinguished professor at UVA, Roy Wagner, who talks openly       about his and other people's spiritual experiences. I know a man who has       written a book, sold in universities, showing how the paradigms of modern       physics are consistent with        the existence of God. I know a man with physics education who was able to tell       my mother that her father, who was at that time across the country, had a pain       in his arm.              Most people believe in something. The claim that all of these people are fools       and lunatics – and the only rational people are ones who do not have such       convictions – is narcissism and ignorance at its worst. Some people appear       to have made a virtue        of closed-mindedness. They think that they are logical and rational, but they       aren't. If you haven't had such experiences, the logical solution is to       investigate further. It is not to attack the people who either have had       spiritual experiences or have        religious beliefs.              When I was in high school, I had a conversation with a young mathematics       teacher and talked to him about spiritual experiences. He told me that he       ignored such things. This shows the basic dishonesty of the mindset. He       disregards the things that do not        parse into his view of the universe. That is not logic, and that is not       reason. It is dishonesty.              Logic, once again, is a method, not a worldview. A logical person investigates       things instead of attacking them or dismissing them. What I have seen on the       part of any number of people who claim this worldview, however, is hideous       conduct. They have        assumed that anyone who has either spiritual experiences or religious beliefs       is a fool, a lunatic or a conman. Out of this consideration they viciously       attack anyone who has the preceding. The problem is, they will be attacking       that way the bulk of        humanity. And that is in no way a rational standpoint.                     [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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