home bbs files messages ]

Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"

   talk.religion.newage      Esoteric and minority religions & philos      9,157 messages   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]

   Message 8,220 of 9,157   
   ibshambat@gmail.com to All   
   Real World: Nature And Civilization   
   28 Jun 20 19:11:21   
   
   I once was with an extraordinarily beautiful artist named Julia Howard. Julia   
   loved beautiful things in nature and made magnificent paintings and   
   photographs. Many people were saying that she did not live in reality.   
      
   These people have an inadequate understanding of what reality is. Nature is   
   just as real as they are, and there is amazing richness and variety in nature   
   â€“ richness and variety beyond anything that they have created themselves.   
   And from observing life    
   in all its richness and variety these people stand not only to enrich their   
   lives but also arrive at greater and fuller understanding of reality.   
      
   Now I am not saying that socio-economic reality is not real. I am saying that   
   there is much more to reality than many people recognize. The business world   
   can take people over and lead them into completely wrongful directions. I have   
   seen even the    
   kindest people acting in mean and abusive ways when they were lost in that   
   world. They thought that what they were a part of was reality proper. No, it   
   is a part of reality. There is much more to reality than they believe. And   
   after they retired, some    
   recaptured the beauty that they had known previously and made it, through   
   their art or their writings, part of the human reality of the world.   
      
   As it impacts upon people, reality consists of both nature and civilization.   
   Both worlds need to be in the best shape that they can be, and people must   
   have the benefits of both worlds. The worst approach we see in the Berbers and   
   the Anasazi, who turned    
   huge stretches of greenery into desert without contributing much of anything   
   to the civilization. There are two complementary semi-solutions: The purely   
   natural lifestyle of Native Americans and the purely technological lifestyle   
   of American Midwest. The    
   full solution is found in place such as California, where people are enjoying   
   the comforts of technological lifestyle while also valuing and taking care of   
   nature.   
      
   Both worlds are completely real. And both need to be in the best shape that   
   they can be. The first reflects reality as not created by people. The second   
   reflects reality as created by people. Once again, both must be in the best   
   shape that they can be.   
      
   Is the economic infrastructure real? Of course it is. But, once again, so is   
   nature. And while people have come up with many impressive and useful things,   
   they also stand a lot to learn from nature. A reality that they have not   
   created and that they    
   cannot at this time re-create.   
      
   I have the influence of both Ayn Rand and Ward Churchill, both of whom I read   
   at approximately the same time. Both of them were part-right. Ayn Rand was   
   right to champion the civilization, wrong to have no respect for nature. Ward   
   Churchill was right to    
   defend indigenous lifestyles, wrong to demonize the Western Civilization. Both   
   worlds contain amazing richness, and both worlds can, and should, get along.   
      
   When I was young, I was both a yuppie and a hippie. I made good money in the   
   computer industry, and I was having various adventures and contact with   
   nature. Once again, both sides have a half of the picture. Once focuses on   
   civilization, the other    
   focuses on nature. The two should work together. So that when an Anglican   
   minister tells me that we have an obligation to take care of both nature and   
   one another, he is speaking a home truth.   
      
   For a long time many people saw nature as something to be conquered; and   
   indeed the people who went to the frontier and made it habitable for people   
   while suffering vicious hardships deserve respect. However there is nothing at   
   all respectable about    
   Brazilian farmers burning rich and beautiful environments in order to make   
   room for ranches that last two years then turn into a mud plain. There is   
   nothing respectable about denying global warming or clinging to destructive   
   technologies when there are    
   many technologies that stand to fulfil humanit's needs at present and greater   
   levels with fewer destructive effects. And there is nothing respectable about   
   seeing a part of reality as the whole of reality while blindly plundering   
   natural treasures that    
   one has not created and cannot re-create.   
      
   Many people have stated that the happiest lifestyle is to cultivate a garden.   
   The Amish, though they lack our amenities, appear to be quite happy. Once   
   again, I do not advocate anything such as doing away with the civilization.   
   The ultra-liberal Dr.    
   Elizabeth Hubbard, who used to go on the Internet as Doctress Neutopia, stated   
   that a large-scale move to the land would only create Appalachia on a large   
   scale. I advocate for the full solution, where we have both nature and   
   civilization and have the    
   benefit of both worlds.   
      
   So that while people in business are dealing with the real world, so was Julia   
   Howard. And her contributions of beauty and wisdom found in nature have been   
   rightfully acclaimed by many highly competent and completely rational people   
   and imparted a very    
   important perspective that many people would have missed.   
      
   https://sites.google.com/site/ilyashambatthought   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]


(c) 1994,  bbs@darkrealms.ca