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|    talk.religion.newage    |    Esoteric and minority religions & philos    |    9,157 messages    |
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|    Message 8,222 of 9,157    |
|    ibshambat@gmail.com to All    |
|    Pat Robertson, James Randi and the New A    |
|    30 Jun 20 17:42:26    |
      Christian evangelicals have been a major force the world over, especially the       United States. The main intellectual reason has been that Pat Robertson used       the arguments of postmodernism to create an intellectual basis for       fundamentalist Christianity. I        do not see why he would not. If postmodernism can be used to bring in Hare       Krishna or paganism, I see no reason why it cannot be used to bring in       Christianity as well. It was a brilliant move, and Pat Robertson used it to       become a leader of a very        powerful spiritual and political movement.              As for James Randi, the leader of the so-called “skeptic” movement, he       does not know what he is talking about. Why on earth would God or Ganesh or       the Tao want to be studied by people who do not believe in them? It says in       the Bible, “Do not put        the Lord your God to test”; and Buddha explicitly forbade his followers the       use of miracles as means of persuasion. The Christian's powers are not under       conscious control; they come either from Christ or from Christians with either       spiritual knowledge        or very strong faith – in many cases people who have converted to       Christianity from paganism or New Age while retaining what they have learned.       As for the people whose powers are under conscious control, very few of them       can reliably reproduce a one in        a million result, and those who can either do not want to call attention to       themselves or else they either do not need or do not want a million dollars.              With the New Age movement, we see both good things and bad things. I see       absolutely nothing wrong with teaching people Reiki or yoga or Zen, or       bringing into the West the wisdom of Native Americans or Australian       Aborigines. Astrology is something that I        once had dismissed, but it has been shown to me by people who are not stupid       in any way to make very precise descriptions of both individual and       generational character. I see none of these things as being unethical or       destructive. There is however        something that's very wrong with the New Age movement.              One of the central claims of the New Age movement is that people are       responsible for everything that happens to them. I find this to be morally       wrong. This attitude can be used to excuse any atrocity under the sun under       the claim that those at the        receiving end of the atrocity have brought it about.              It also is a claim that is very easy to stand on its head. All that one needs       to do is negatively impact the other person – as people of course do all the       time – and then the person will have to blame herself. A witch who gets       burned at the stake        will have to say that she did it and not the Grand Inquisitor. A woman who       gets beaten to death by her husband will have to say that she caused it and       not the man. And if a New Age community comes under barbaric attack from       Muslim or Christian        fundamentalists, they will also have to say that they did it to themselves.              Probably the one thing that makes people such as James Randi credible to some       is the fact that the main religion of the place – Christianity – has put a       damper upon magick, spiritism, shamanism and similar pursuits. This has       destroyed the evidence        for spiritual activity in Christian-influenced societies, leading many to       think that such things are hogwash. I do not have the option of such beliefs;       I know what I have experienced, and I also have a testimony of many others,       including distinguished        scientists, successful entrepreneurs and highly educated, highly successful       professionals. A person who has not seen evidence for such activity and is       skeptical of it is making an honest, innocent mistake. A person who has had       such experiences and either        repressed or denied them is in no way honest or innocent.              The same is the case for many in the academia, who have seen any number of       scientific studies that demonstrate spiritual activity but have censored them       or dismissed them with a likewise dishonest claim that “an extraordinary       claim requires an        extraordinary level of proof.” I see absolutely nothing extraordinary about       something that the bulk of humanity believes in. A far more extraordinary       claim is that the bulk of humanity are lunatics and that the only sane people       are ones partaking of        academic groupthink.              Pat Robertson has disgraced himself by making claims that were obviously       false. If AIDS had been God's way of controlling the homosexual population,       then the bulk of people dying of AIDS would be homosexuals in San Francisco       and not straight men and        women in Africa. And if 9-11 had been God's punishment for America for the       feminists and liberals living in America, then it would have happened not in       2001 but in 1960s and 1970s when there were far more feminists and liberals in       America than there were        the last decade. This impugns Pat Robertson and brands him America's biggest       conman, which of course he has been all along. It does not however impugn       either Christianity or spirituality.              It is valid to use reason; not valid to believe that the bulk of humanity are       loonies. It is valid to have faith; not valid to use it to deny one's children       an adequate education or to militate against science and mathematics. It is       valid to have        spiritual experience; not valid to believe that if I were to rape you and kill       you it would be your fault rather than mine or that the 50 million people who       perished in the Gulag had it coming to them or that if a truck runs over a       4-year-old child it is        her fault.              There are any number of folks on the ground with all sorts of knowledge, and       they have been taking it in all sorts of directions. I know of a Jehovah's       Witnesses family in Australia that has taken extensive interest in psychology       and the occult and has        been using that knowledge to further the Jehovah's Witnesses agenda. I know of       a number of Christians in both Australia and America who came to Christ after       having been part of the consciousness movement, Hare Krishna or the New Age       and have likewise        been using what they had learned to promote Christianity. The people who have       no use for such things think that they are smart, but whom they are fooling       really is themselves. As one of the leaders of Alcoholics Anonymous said of       such people, “I feel        sorry for you.”                     [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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