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|    talk.atheism    |    Debate about the validity and nature of    |    89,766 messages    |
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|    Message 88,344 of 89,766    |
|    BV BV to All    |
|    Muhammad's Sword (1/2)    |
|    26 Apr 15 08:08:43    |
      From: bv8bv8bv8@gmail.com              Muhammad's Sword                     Description: A Jewish atheist speaks about the notion that Islam spread by the       sword.              Since the days when Roman Emperors threw Christians to the lions, the       relations between the emperors and the heads of the church have undergone many       changes.              Constantine the Great, who became Emperor in the year 306 - exactly 1700 years       ago - encouraged the practice of Christianity in the empire, which included       Palestine. Centuries later, the church split into an Eastern (Orthodox) and a       Western (Catholic)        part. In the West, the Bishop of Rome, who acquired the title of Pope,       demanded that the Emperor accept his superiority.              The struggle between the Emperors and the Popes played a central role in       European history and divided the peoples. It knew ups and downs. Some       Emperors dismissed or expelled a Pope, some Popes dismissed or excommunicated       an Emperor. One of the        Emperors, Henry IV, "walked to Canossa", standing for three days barefoot in       the snow in front of the Pope's castle, until the Pope deigned to annul his       excommunication.              But there were times when Emperors and Popes lived in peace with each other.        We are witnessing such a period today. Between the present Pope, Benedict       XVI, and the present Emperor, George Bush II, there exists a wonderful       harmony. Last week's speech        by the Pope, which aroused a world-wide storm, went well with Bush's crusade       against "Islamofascism", in the context of the "Clash of Civilizations".              In his lecture at a German university, the 265th Pope described what he sees       as a huge difference between Christianity and Islam: while Christianity is       based on reason, Islam denies it. While Christians see the logic of God's       actions, Muslims deny that        there is any such logic in the actions of Allah.              As a Jewish atheist, I do not intend to enter the fray of this debate. It is       much beyond my humble abilities to understand the logic of the Pope. But I       cannot overlook one passage, which concerns me too, as an Israeli living near       the fault-line of this        "war of civilizations".              In order to prove the lack of reason in Islam, the Pope asserts that the       prophet Muhammad ordered his followers to spread their religion by the sword.        According to the Pope, that is unreasonable, because faith is born of the       soul, not of the body. How        can the sword influence the soul?              To support his case, the Pope quoted - of all people - a Byzantine Emperor,       who belonged, of course, to the competing Eastern Church. At the end of the       14th century, the Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus told of a debate he had - or       so he said (its        occurrence is in doubt) - with an unnamed Persian Muslim scholar. In the heat       of the argument, the Emperor (according to himself) flung the following words       at his adversary:              "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find       things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the       faith he preached".              These words give rise to three questions: (a) Why did the Emperor       say them? (b) Are they true? (c) Why did the present Pope       quote them?              WHEN MANUEL II wrote his treatise, he was the head of a dying empire. He       assumed power in 1391, when only a few provinces of the once illustrious       empire remained. These, too, were already under Turkish threat.              At that point in time, the Ottoman Turks had reached the banks of the Danube.        They had conquered Bulgaria and the north of Greece, and had twice defeated       relieving armies sent by Europe to save the Eastern Empire. On May 29, 1453,       only a few years        after Manuel's death, his capital, Constantinople (the present Istanbul) fell       to the Turks, putting an end to the Empire that had lasted for more than a       thousand years.              During his reign, Manuel made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an       attempt to drum up support. He promised to reunite the church. There is no       doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian       countries against the Turks        and convince them to start a new crusade. The aim was practical, theology was       serving politics.              In this sense, the quote serves exactly the requirements of the present       Emperor, George Bush II. He, too, wants to unite the Christian world against       the mainly Muslim "Axis of Evil". Moreover, the Turks are again knocking on       the doors of Europe, this        time peacefully. It is well known that the Pope supports the forces that       object to the entry of Turkey into the European Union.              Is there any truth in Manuel's argument                            The pope himself threw in a word of caution. As a serious and renowned       theologian, he could not afford to falsify written texts. Therefore, he       admitted that the Quran specifically forbade the spreading of the faith by       force. He quoted the second Sura,        verse 256 (strangely fallible, for a pope, he meant verse 257) which says:              "There must be no coercion in matters of faith."              How can one ignore such an unequivocal statement? The Pope simply argues that       this commandment was laid down by the prophet when he was at the beginning of       his career, still weak and powerless, but that later on he ordered the use of       the sword in the        service of the faith. Such an order does not exist in the Quran. True,       Muhammad called for the use of the sword in his war against opposing tribes -       Christian, Jewish and others - in Arabia, when he was building his state. But       that was a political act,        not a religious one; basically a fight for territory, not for the spreading       of the faith.              Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits." The treatment of other       religions by Islam must be judged by a simple test: How did the Muslim rulers       behave for more than a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread the       faith by the sword"?              Well, they just did not.              For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims?        Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held       the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs,       Romanians,        Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under       Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to       become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.              True, the Albanians did convert to Islam, and so did the Bosniaks. But nobody       argues that they did this under duress. They adopted Islam in order to become       favorites of the government and enjoy the fruits.                     [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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