XPost: alt.politics.usa.congress, alt.atheism, talk.politics.misc   
   XPost: alt.politics.usa.democrats, alt.politics.usa.republicans   
   From: Intelligent@savetheworldmsn.com   
      
   COVID may last 4 months to over 12 months if we don't do things right.  All   
   this   
   equity should not be destroyed as people continue to earn passive incomes on   
   debt   
   and rent, while no active revenues are being produced by many companies.   
      
   It will not harm the economy any worse to stop all debt and rent payments until   
   COVID passes, will it?  How?   
      
   The Republican borrowing and lending to corporations who pay their debts to   
   passive income holders, and could just have a stay, is a curious way to spend   
   the   
   taxpayer's trillions.  Though to the extent those sometimes risky trillions are   
   coming back, that lending won't increase the National Debt.  Easy credit isn't   
   spending as much as pure spending, but if that's how it is, it sure makes it   
   sound   
   like a lot more than it is. - Yet why aren't JC Penny and Neiman Marcus   
   borrowing   
   from the government's $3 trillion credit package?   
      
   Yet new borrowing should not be subject to such a stay.   
      
   It should be clear, the fact that clothing or any companies were weak before   
   COVID   
   is not an excuse to let COVID push them over the brink!   
      
      
   Why should people pay their savings, to the rent on their apartments or to   
   their   
   mortgages, during COVID?   
      
      
   At the least forbearance on some industries like clothing companies - which   
   have   
   failed and are failing, and Airlines, which are no doubt the brink of   
   bankruptcy.   
      
   Medical companies and essential companies may benefit from COVID.  Might health   
   insurance companies fail?   
      
   Are there essential industries, that yet aren't being used during COVID, that   
   merit the most protection?   
      
      
   And there is the rent of consuming food without pay, spending down your   
   savings.   
      
      
   It should all be on the government.  Not on the economy.  The economy crashes   
   because the National Debt is defaulted upon, is not what's going to happen.    
   The   
   National Debt will not be defaulted upon at $40 Trillion.  How high above this   
   it   
   could go, deserves analysis.  You just pay the debt by issuing more debt,   
   that's   
   the way funny money works.  And fiat money is what our basis is.   
      
   [Greece doesn't have its own central bank, and is like a State, like if   
   California   
   kept issuing bonds.  Before default became impossible for Congress the   
   inflation   
   and rates would have gone up, and the Fed and Congress are fully in control of   
   adjusting the National Debt in any which way they want in such a crisis, such   
   as   
   moving rates to 0% just on that debt, while rates on everything else may be   
   high   
   possibly.  This is a time of National Security.  Of course, if it wasn't a debt   
   driven society, how would the Fed stop inflation?  Like if the Fed has no   
   bonds to   
   sell, how would the corporate bond rates be higher?  Can the Fed create bonds,   
   and   
   sell them at a high rate, just as it creates money and buys Congress's bonds   
   at a   
   low rate.  Probably theoretically, just like it creates money.  However the   
   issue   
   is what we do today, and default however theoretical, isn't going to happen on   
   $40   
   Trillion.  Okay, so the Fed buys Congress' bonds at a low rate, and high price,   
   and then raises rates, and sells them at a high rate and a low price.  No   
   theoretical crisis possible.  The Fed appears all powerful. Anyway, a default   
   if   
   possible would at worst be something we have to accept to save ourselves from   
   COVID.  But, yeah, it's good to know if it is possible.].   
      
   Again, a default on the National Debt would be an acceptable way to save   
   ourselves   
   / our country, from COVID, but 1) The Response to the Greek Example above, just   
   proved it's not possible, and 2) we do still want to know it is a possibility   
   if   
   it is, before going through with it anyway, we should make all decisions   
   knowing   
   their implications and assessing how likely given the value of them.  But,   
   we're   
   not going anywhere near a default possibility so far, if it was possible,   
   which it   
   doesn't seem it is.   
      
   So inflation would be the issue, but is not the issue here.  After COVID, after   
   the stay is lifted, there may be higher inflation, and resultingly higher   
   rates at   
   the same Stock Market valuation.  This means the economy won't be able to   
   *grow*   
   as fast in the future.  IF we don't want more inflation, we won't be able to   
   issue   
   as much debt as a society as a whole, after COVID, to spend on purchase of   
   capital   
   and labor, because we already issued the debt to spend on consumption = sales   
   revenues, during COVID, yet we are concerned with the economy not *shrinking*,   
   and   
   not having a *meltdown*, and a Great Depression (incidentally, requiring   
   SPENDING   
   on WAR to get us out of it) right now.  It's National Security already.   
      
      
   Tax revenues aren't necessarily going to be very high this year either.   
      
      
   And JC Penny can fail 12 months after COVID-19 is over, and not now.   
      
   Evictions stayed for one year after COVID is over, is demanded and imperative.   
      
   Except on new borrowing and new lending and new renting.   
      
   Allowing businesses to fail, isn't going to help the economy to grow.  That is   
   not   
   free market capitalism.  That is madness.   
      
      
   If they're really such poor businesses, they can fail 1 year after COVID-19 is   
   over I guess.  ["I guess," cause don't you think it's better to protect all   
   businesses, than to let potentially productive businesses fail.  There could be   
   another side to this, like ongoing languishing businesses, but if there is   
   productive opportunity, wouldn't they switch into that, rather than letting   
   them   
   fail beforehand.  So that would be like all bonds are unsecured, thus could   
   only   
   sue for liens, and any new debt issue or sale would have to pay the liens   
   before   
   the company or owners could receive it, yet bankruptcies generally wouldn't be,   
   and the company could keep trying. This is just a general contemplation though,   
   not pertinent to COVID.  What other sorts of business debt protection could   
   their   
   be?].   
      
   The economy is not suddenly going to be at full steam, the day business doors   
   open   
   once again, that they will have any money to pay their rents or their debts.   
      
      
   Then Congress or someone should protect credit reports from bad marks for   
   non-payment.  Renters can not just stop paying otherwise, or they will be 100%   
   unable to get a lease in the future for their bad credit reports.  The point of   
   credit reports all goes to housing, and missed housing payments affect ability   
   to   
   attain housing the most.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)