XPost: alt.politics.usa.congress, alt.atheism, talk.politics.misc   
   XPost: alt.politics.usa.democrats, alt.politics.usa.republicans   
   From: Intelligent@savetheworldmsn.com   
      
   How can you prohibit abortion, if you don't know the fetus is a person,   
   (equivalent to a grown man for argument's sakes)?   
      
   How can you allow abortion, if you don't know the fetus is a cadaver?   
      
   Because the default position is freedom.   
      
   The default position is not everything illegal, and only certain things   
   "allowed."   
      
   This is truth.  Analytics.  Science.  The dictates of logic and reason.  If you   
   don't believe in the law, how can you be the perpetrator of the law the   
   government   
   is, (Or as you are, through it)?   
      
   The law cannot be existant when there is not a crime identified.  Abortion is   
   merely the most egregious example of prohibition.  All prohibition is invalid,   
   from the war on drugs and weapons, to our public lands and sexuality, our   
   freedom   
   of speech, and children's rights, and our soldier's rights to quit.  From   
   Hitler's   
   mass incarceration of Jews, to killing witches, - the government does not   
   reserve   
   nor retain the right to kill and murder, and has no such right.   
   Prohibition has always been a crime against humanity, an unlawful, despicable   
   act,   
   the work of a subhuman. - to keeping slaves, and punishment today - though you   
   contend you can't convince with reason;   
   Prohibition is the work of the devil, and all who practice it are damned and   
   condemned.  They are guilty, and they deserve to die; until they repent.  We   
   hate   
   them, and we want them dead; until they repent.  This is our country, and they   
   shouldn't steal it from us.   
      
   If the fetus is a cadaver, and not a grown man, then it is an immoral sin to   
   not   
   abort.  Illegal even, thus it could be against the law to not abort, if you   
   don't   
   want a baby.  You are committing an immoral sin, if you do not abort, if the   
   fetus   
   is certainly a cadaver, and has no human spirit yet.   
      
   Are we ever going to all agree, on when the fetus stops being a cadaver, and   
   has a   
   human spirit in it?  Personally I think 17-18 weeks, and post that, it just   
   gets   
   more and more likely, to the point of birth.  Some reincarnated individuals   
   don't   
   come into the fetus until the point of birth or perhaps cesarean section.  All   
   religions confirm reincarnation, including Christianity and Hinduism.  But in   
   answer to the question, I doubt it.  It is apparently not a completely   
   absolutely   
   scientific known at the moment.  Largely speculation, when life begins.  Who is   
   convincing or telling you or me?  People have memories of the afterlife and   
   being   
   in the womb.  People have memories of the afterlife and coming into the baby at   
   the point of birth.  I've read no believable accounts of people being in the   
   zygote at the point of conception.  So unless you are materialism, and believe   
   you   
   come out of an object, have no beliefs nor notions of past lifetimes and past   
   life   
   regression, you must admit the Spirit comes into the gestating cadaver at an   
   inconsistent point some time long after conception.   
      
      
   Are you an athiest, deathist, materialist?  What God gave you the right to   
   impose   
   your opinion onto others?   
      
   You're just like, _no God_ , I'm an athiest deathist materialist, I just   
   impose my   
   opinion.   
      
   So based on that criticism of imposing, _I can't_ stop somebody from aborting   
   at   
   35 weeks without imposing?   Or even 42? (normal gestation being 40) Haven't   
   given   
   birth yet, but still changed your mind?   
      
      
   So we need to draw a distinction, between prohibition based on speculation and   
   prejudice, and prohibition of murder and other certain crimes.   
      
   And that's my whole fucking point.   
      
   If there's not a crime identified, there cannot be a law.  A notion there can,   
   *is* a notion, that prohibition of *any sort* and against *anything* is legal.   
   That anything can be made illegal.  So some people think 26 weeks, but they   
   never   
   studied anything on abortion, or they would know no doctors abort past 20   
   weeks,   
   EVEN WHEN THEY'RE ALLOWED TO.  Why do we have to be under law?  Why can't we be   
   under grace?  90% of abortions take place in the first 13 weeks, and 10% in the   
   next 7.  Do you think most women are sociopaths?  The earliest premies have   
   survived at 21 weeks (maybe one out of many, many), YET the States put   
   viability   
   at 23 or 24 weeks.  But we CAN all agree a 35 week gestated fetus is POSSIBLY a   
   human baby, attached to the mother, maybe not in all instances, but at least in   
   SOME.  That there's at least a 40% chance that's a human baby, and somebody may   
   die, if it is aborted.   
      
   Arbitrary prohibition is contrary to all Jurisprudence, legal science, and   
   "Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England," (which formed the   
   foundation   
   of U.S. law), and much more the Christian and Jewish and Muslim Bible.  What   
   God   
   gave you the right to impose your opinion onto others?   
      
   How can you prohibit abortion, if you don't know the fetus is a person,   
   (equivalent to a grown man for argument's sakes)?   
      
   You CAN'T legally.  You're unlawful.   
      
   It doesn't matter what supreme court from the U.S. to Timbuktu said you can.   
   They're only people.  Just like you and I.   
      
      
   I wonder if anybody cares about that opinion of mine.  What legal science or   
   quackery are they following if they don't?   
      
      
      
   Yet, there is a second point relevant to abortion, besides the grown man vs.   
   cadaver question.  And that is, that you DO have a right to separate from a   
   grown man:   
      
   For instance, if I needed a kidney, and it was not going to be available for   
   six   
   months, and I was like, "bro, the doctors said I'm going to die in the next few   
   days, if I'm not hooked up to someone," Would you hook up to me?  No, you   
   would be   
   like, "sorry bro, I don't know what you're going to do."   
      
   But if I needed a kidney, and it was going to be available in two weeks, and I   
   was   
   like "bro, the doctors said I'm going to die in the next few days, if I'm not   
   hooked up to someone," if you were my friend, you could be like, "okay, we're   
   going to do this.  We'll sit and watch T.V., or in the hospital for two weeks."   
   And so then, we hooked up, and then the doctors were like, "that kidney is bad.   
   There's not going to be a kidney for eight months."  You would be like, "uhm,   
   we're not going to be hooked up for eight months.  We're disconnecting."  And   
   at   
   my funeral, they could be like "Dude! he's dead cause of you!," and you could   
   be   
   like "any of you could have attached up to him for eight months (you even had a   
   few days to do it), but you didn't!"   
      
   This proves you have a right to detach from a grown man, and thereby the right   
   to   
   detach from a fetus that is a living baby, and therefore a person, even though   
   it   
   is is no longer a cadaver.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)