From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   > On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to make   
   claims   
   >>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so my guess   
   is   
   >>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't properly   
   grasped   
   >>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming with   
   their   
   >>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>> ?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core values   
   >>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you snipped out?   
   >>>>    What were their other core values?   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>   
   >>> ====================================   
   >>>   
   >>> QUOTE:   
   >>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>> takes   
   >>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God, and   
   >>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God has   
   >>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all things,   
   >>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is the   
   >>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>   
   >>> QUOTE:   
   >>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>> Core Values   
   >>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>   
   >>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>> science,   
   >>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>   
   >>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue with   
   >>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>   
   >>> ===============================================   
   >>>   
   >>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>   
   >> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>   
   >> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe claiming   
   >> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>   
   >>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>   
   >> They are claiming that their understanding of science can be made to   
   >> conform to their literal interpretations of the Bible.  It is the same   
   >> claim that the ID perps make except they agree that biological evolution   
   >> is a fact of nature.  Some of them still think like Behe.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>> Not only   
   >>>> that, but as I indicated there are somethings about evolution that have   
   >>>> not been established because they claim to be tweekers like Behe, and   
   >>>> their god has been tweeking things in order to make humans into his own   
   >>>> image.   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm still waiting for an example of those tweekers. And why do you   
   >>> keep bringing Behe into it? He has nothing to do with Biologos or they   
   >>> with him. They actually have a lengthy article about his "Darwin's   
   >>> Black Box" book where they go through his arguments one by one and   
   >>> show how they don't stand up.   
   >>   
   >> How do you expect god to have made man in his own image without   
   >> tweeking?  They likely even differ in what they think image means.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>   
      
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