From: martinharran@gmail.com   
      
   On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 08:04:06 -0500, RonO    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to make   
   claims   
   >>>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so my   
   guess is   
   >>>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's   
   admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't properly   
   grasped   
   >>>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming with   
   their   
   >>>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>>> ?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core values   
   >>>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you snipped out?   
   >>>>>    What were their other core values?   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>>   
   >>>> ====================================   
   >>>>   
   >>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>>> takes   
   >>>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God, and   
   >>>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God has   
   >>>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all things,   
   >>>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is the   
   >>>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>>> Core Values   
   >>>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>>> science,   
   >>>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue with   
   >>>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> ===============================================   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>>   
   >>> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >>> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>>   
   >>> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe claiming   
   >>> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>>   
   >>> They are claiming that their understanding of science can be made to   
   >>> conform to their literal interpretations of the Bible.  It is the same   
   >>> claim that the ID perps make except they agree that biological evolution   
   >>> is a fact of nature.  Some of them still think like Behe.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Not only   
   >>>>> that, but as I indicated there are somethings about evolution that have   
   >>>>> not been established because they claim to be tweekers like Behe, and   
   >>>>> their god has been tweeking things in order to make humans into his own   
   >>>>> image.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I'm still waiting for an example of those tweekers. And why do you   
   >>>> keep bringing Behe into it? He has nothing to do with Biologos or they   
   >>>> with him. They actually have a lengthy article about his "Darwin's   
   >>>> Black Box" book where they go through his arguments one by one and   
   >>>> show how they don't stand up.   
   >>>   
   >>> How do you expect god to have made man in his own image without   
      
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