From: martinharran@gmail.com   
      
   On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:28:44 -0500, RonO    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 3/14/2025 12:06 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 08:04:06 -0500, RonO    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to make   
   claims   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so my   
   guess is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's   
   admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't properly   
   grasped   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming with   
   their   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>>>>> ?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core values   
   >>>>>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you snipped   
   out?   
   >>>>>>>     What were their other core values?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> ====================================   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>>>>> takes   
   >>>>>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God, and   
   >>>>>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God has   
   >>>>>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all things,   
   >>>>>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is the   
   >>>>>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>>>>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>>>>> Core Values   
   >>>>>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>>>>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>>>>> science,   
   >>>>>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue with   
   >>>>>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> ===============================================   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >>>>> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe claiming   
   >>>>> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>>>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>>>>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> They are claiming that their understanding of science can be made to   
   >>>>> conform to their literal interpretations of the Bible.  It is the same   
   >>>>> claim that the ID perps make except they agree that biological evolution   
   >>>>> is a fact of nature.  Some of them still think like Behe.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Not only   
   >>>>>>> that, but as I indicated there are somethings about evolution that have   
   >>>>>>> not been established because they claim to be tweekers like Behe, and   
   >>>>>>> their god has been tweeking things in order to make humans into his own   
   >>>>>>> image.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I'm still waiting for an example of those tweekers. And why do you   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)