From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 3/14/2025 12:06 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   > On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 08:04:06 -0500, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to make   
   claims   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so my   
   guess is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's   
   admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't properly   
   grasped   
   >>>>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming with   
   their   
   >>>>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>>>> ?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core values   
   >>>>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you snipped out?   
   >>>>>>     What were their other core values?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> ====================================   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>>>> takes   
   >>>>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God, and   
   >>>>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God has   
   >>>>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all things,   
   >>>>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is the   
   >>>>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>>>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>>>> Core Values   
   >>>>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>>>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>>>> science,   
   >>>>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue with   
   >>>>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> ===============================================   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >>>> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe claiming   
   >>>> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>>>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> They are claiming that their understanding of science can be made to   
   >>>> conform to their literal interpretations of the Bible.  It is the same   
   >>>> claim that the ID perps make except they agree that biological evolution   
   >>>> is a fact of nature.  Some of them still think like Behe.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Not only   
   >>>>>> that, but as I indicated there are somethings about evolution that have   
   >>>>>> not been established because they claim to be tweekers like Behe, and   
   >>>>>> their god has been tweeking things in order to make humans into his own   
   >>>>>> image.   
   >>>>>   
      
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